X3 vs X5

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TomS

Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #20 on: 5 Mar 2021, 02:40 am »
Tom, could you please elaborate a bit why it is better for OB to have a narrower baffle? This actually can be the deciding factor in my dilemma. And another important observation: your room is even bigger than mine, and you do not have the need for subs. May I please inquire if it will be possible for you to conduct "my music test" and get back with the results?

It is posted on the website "Frequency Range: 25Hz-22kHz (typical in-room bandwidth) +/- 3dB". Could somebody please explain what exactly the ''typical in-room bandwidth" term means? What is the correlation with anechoic chamber measurements? Would it correspond to, let say, 35Hz at -3dB anechoic?
In a VERY general sense, low frequencies benefit from a wider baffle, upper frequencies from a narrower baffle. Clayton can talk you through this in simple terms with his speakers.

I'm not sure what "my music test" is. I played pipe organ for about 10 years in my youth, very large ones, so that music has a special spot in my heart and I know what it is supposed to sound like. Most every bigger is better speaker and giant subs get this sound all wrong, trying to impress, be overly visceral, etc. It should sound natural and subtle while carrying the right amount of power and presence, all in balance, with proper pitch definition and nuance. The X5's do this really well, while most other speakers do not, trying to do too much, brute force as it were. Just my opinion and experience.

Anechoic isn't really relevant in the real world for bass response. Perhaps an outdoor measurement on a raised platform makes some sense. How the speaker responds in a given room will always be unique, so you work with what you have. I was simply pointing out the X5 can extend as low as the X5 in real rooms. The X3 should be capable of playing slightly louder, but not by much. Again, Clayton can guide you. He knew I asked for X3's and was ready to pay for those, yet steered me down to the X5's and I'm very happy with them.

In terms of amplifier requirements, you will get opinions all over the map, just read and study the Spatial threads. I personally do not read too much into that 97db spec. I've tried at least 6 different amplifiers - Don Sachs Valhalla integrated (30wpc tube), Nord MP502 (~200wpc SS), Apollon 1ET400 (~225wpc SS), Cherry Golden DTM (200wpc SS), LTA Ultralinear (20wpc tube), Modwright KWH 225i Hybrid integrated (225wpc). For noise performance, the lower gain amps worked better for me. Of all of those, the Modwright provides the best balance and compromise, with a tube preamp section and class AB power section. It makes the X5's really sing, very convincing.

bbybaudio

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Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #21 on: 5 Mar 2021, 09:14 pm »
X5s in a 22X16X9 rm speakers 3.5 feet out from wall on long wall. Diffuser panels behind each speaker and two panels behind listening position. I do not lack for bass at all. At times it is too much, depending on the recording. Overall, best bass I have had in my system. It is fast and you can hear every note.

SoundSound

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Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #22 on: 6 Mar 2021, 02:31 am »
Thank you very kindly, dear experts! :)
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My dual subs are run off a DSpeaker Antimode thingie...
Glynn, are you referring to Anti-Mode 8033 Automatic Subwoofer Equalizer (http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/anti-mode-8033.shtml), please?
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I have X5s in a ~13 x 22ft room, which is also open on one side. Initially I was a little disappointed with the bass ... I've since treated the room, bass traps etc., and I don't feel like subs are needed... I had them maxed out but after the room treatment I've now got them set somewhere in the middle.
@JTF - if the X5's bass is enough for you, it sure will be good for my smaller listening space! The problem is what traps to use, and where put them to in my room...
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Your pass labs gear will be dead quiet. You can adjust the bass on the speakers easily with a manual adjustment on the rear of the speaker.
@morganc - this a great news indeed: no hiss from the AMT drivers! I believe I read somewhere their sensitivity is about 101 dB...
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What’s your favourite piano piece or orchestra?   I’ll happily run the test for you and I’m confident that in a condo you’ll have plenty of bass without subs!
Anything from Tchaikovsky: Concert for Piano No. 1, Tchaikovsky: "1812" Overture, Beethoven:  Symphony No. 1 - 9 will do. Just tell me if the music really moves your soul like you are in a concert hall.
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Again Clayton can answer that for you and is as honest of a guy as you will ever meet in this industry.
This is truly a rare commodity these days... No wonder he has such a dedicated following!
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Clayton can talk you through this in simple terms with his speakers.
Tom, this is exactly the reason I bug you guys so much with all my silly questions: I am a thoroughly non-technical person and am just afraid I will not understand a word such renowned designer will be trying to put to my head...
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I played pipe organ for about 10 years in my youth, very large ones, so that music has a special spot in my heart and I know what it is supposed to sound like.
OMG, Tom, this is just perfect! I was privileged to attend a concert in St. Thomas Church, Leipzig (it was not "Bach organ", but the one built about 20 years ago), and I know how Brandenburg Concerto should sound.
Could you please play your favourite fragments from Brandenburg Concerto No. 1 - 6 and tell me how the X5's render the MUSIC? Do they sound right?
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The X3 should be capable of playing slightly louder, but not by much.
Loudness is not a requirement for me at all: I try not to disturb my lovely neighbours, all good people.
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Again, Clayton can guide you. He knew I asked for X3's and was ready to pay for those, yet steered me down to the X5's and I'm very happy with them.
If the X5's are recommended for 17x19x8 room, they should do for my 24x12x8 as well. And, by the way, this is another acknowledgment of his integrity.
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In terms of amplifier requirements, you will get opinions all over the map, just read and study the Spatial threads.
I did, and to my dismay, it looks like entry-level PASS Labs gear is not a very popular choice, to say the least... Tom, you auditioned them all, and you recommend a 225wpc "monster"... I am devastated...
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X5s in a 22X16X9 rm speakers 3.5 feet out from wall on long wall. Diffuser panels behind each speaker and two panels behind listening position. I do not lack for bass at all. At times it is too much, depending on the recording. Overall, best bass I have had in my system. It is fast and you can hear every note.
@bbybaudio - what is the distance between the speakers, and your listening distance, please? Looks like you are really happy with the SOUND you have achieved! Do you believe diffuser panels play essential part here?

Dear experts, "brothers-in-music" (can't you tell I really like "Dire Straits"?) what do we know about the crossover frequencies, and crossover topology? Any upgrades (in terms of the components employed) you would recommend me to ask for? :)

TomS

Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #23 on: 6 Mar 2021, 03:04 am »
I'm pretty sure the beauty of the Modwright is that the first 25w are all in class A, so it probably runs that way nearly all of the time at sane volumes. Any of the Pass gear would work well too. I considered the INT-60 but they just run too warm for my situation.

Clayton is very down to earth, just give him a call, well worth your time, zero pressure. Plus you get 60 days to trail them.

bbybaudio

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Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #24 on: 6 Mar 2021, 09:50 pm »
My speakers are 8.5 ft apart and I am back 10.5 feet. I got the diffusers following comments on AC. I then communicated with Clayton and he said they would make a large improvement and they did. Most cost effective items I have purchased in terms of ROI for improved sound quality. I have been tinkering with the X5s for some time as I believe I have the first pair produced.

SoundSound

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Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #25 on: 7 Mar 2021, 04:46 pm »
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I'm pretty sure the beauty of the Modwright is that the first 25w are all in class A, so it probably runs that way nearly all of the time at sane volumes.
Thank you Tom! :) From your assessment it looks like I can hope for a good sound from my little PASS too since it runs in class A for about the same wattage. Yes, 60 days trail is great, but with cross-border shipping and currency conversion in my case it gets a bit more involved... :(
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... I believe I have the first pair produced.
WOW! :) I have never expected diffuser panels would make such a difference... Could you please recommend me a good budget, but effective solution? :fishing:

sarora9

Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #26 on: 7 Mar 2021, 06:03 pm »
As I recall shipping for my X3s was $400, so "free trial" could end up costing $800 minimum. OTOH that is less than 10% of the price.


 

TomS

Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #27 on: 7 Mar 2021, 07:15 pm »
As I recall shipping for my X3s was $400, so "free trial" could end up costing $800 minimum. OTOH that is less than 10% of the price.
Also sounds like he's not in the US  :?

SoundSound

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Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #28 on: 8 Mar 2021, 05:15 pm »
Yep, for us, Canucks, the S&H from the States can become quite an expensive proposition... :( With your most appreciated help, dear experts, I now decided on my end-game speakers, the mighty and beautiful X5's! :) Now I just have to pull the trigger... 8)
How are the X5's usually shipped: just on a pallet in cardboard boxes? Do they usually arrive undamaged? What carrier would you recommend, please? :?:

Spatial Audio

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Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #29 on: 8 Mar 2021, 06:35 pm »
Yep, for us, Canucks, the S&H from the States can become quite an expensive proposition... :( With your most appreciated help, dear experts, I now decided on my end-game speakers, the mighty and beautiful X5's! :) Now I just have to pull the trigger... 8)
How are the X5's usually shipped: just on a pallet in cardboard boxes? Do they usually arrive undamaged? What carrier would you recommend, please? :?:

Hello SoundSound,

The X5 uses a very robust carton system to protect the speaker, so we have had zero shipping damage so far. 2.25" thick rigid foam and double walled cartons. We ship via Fedex Ground in the US and Canada. Please direct these type of questions to me directly at claytonshawis@gmail.com

Thanks,
Clayton

jjss49

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Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #30 on: 9 Mar 2021, 04:46 pm »
i would confirm that clayton's packaging is very good and protects the speakers very well despite the size/shape of the speakers (in my case m3 sapphires) ...  note that it is a 2 person job to unpack... so have friend/s.o. available...  and have a good size attic or basement or storage unit to keep those shipping boxes!

SoundSound

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 65
Re: X3 vs X5
« Reply #31 on: 9 Mar 2021, 07:13 pm »
Thank you very kindly, dear experts, for your most appreciated help! :)

Last, but not least: please keep it safe and stay healthy to enjoy our wonderful hobby for years to come! :)