Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 17099 times.

HAL

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 4504
Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #160 on: 4 Jan 2020, 06:07 pm »
Exactly where in the passive radiator? A picture...
maty,
On the rear of the cabinet in the earlier pictures.

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #161 on: 4 Jan 2020, 06:08 pm »
maty,
On the rear of the cabinet in the earlier pictures.

Yes, a passive radiator performs basically the same function that a port would - lower the bass response vs. using a sealed box.

maty

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #162 on: 4 Jan 2020, 06:14 pm »
Phase with the new crossover is better than the old one.  But we discovered that phase will never be perfect because the midrange driver is physically located FAR back from the tweeter and from the bass woofer.  So perfect (or even good) phase is impossible.  You'd have to change the design of the box and the driver layout significantly in order to address phase.  But I think it's less of a problem in this design for reasons I'll get to in a second...

Optmized and clarified (more the horns)



[BIG IMG, link] https://images.crutchfieldonline.com/products/2017/20/714/g714FORTE3C-F.jpg

maty

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #163 on: 4 Jan 2020, 06:25 pm »
...So you lose soundstage depth.  But if you look at the other major measurement, spectral decay, you see what you gain - ultra clean response and of course the horns themselves are very dynamic in a room.  The net result is you end up with a speaker that doesn't "recreate the original event" like my Super 7s can.  No, the Forte's create their own, new musical event by pushing the sound out toward you in a very exciting way.  Not sure if that makes any sense, but that's the best I can explain what I'm hearing.

One of the shortcomings of my little 5.25" coaxials of my second system is motivated by listening in the near field and close to rear wall (thanks to front bass-reflex) -> small depth. That is why I began to be interested in amplifiers with a dominant H2 harmonic profile but I am listen to all kind of music, including complex (orchestral) music, it would be logical to switch between that profile and another without harmonics at -90 dB without change the amp.

Months ago, I started incorporating delay with JRiver MC v25 -> more depth.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/minimum-phase-vs-linear-phase.8762/post-253826

Days ago I retouched the amplifier and managed to increase the soundstage, so I reduced from 3 ms -> 2.6 ms. Orchestral: 5 ms -> 4.2 ms.

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #164 on: 4 Jan 2020, 06:46 pm »
Jason (Pez)  came by and listened yesterday - he couldn't believe the difference in the sound of my upstairs system.  As I mentioned before, I've just put in thick carpet and very large acoustic panels on the walls, so acoustically it's way different than the last time he was here.  The change in room acoustics is one of the things that motivated my to take the Forte's to Danny in the first place - they sounded fine in the bright room before treatments but sounded a bit soft and muddled after the treatments.

Of course Danny worked his magic & we did all the stuff mentioned in this thread and Jason had not heard any of it, so yesterday he got to hear all the changes all at once.

"Transformed is not a strong enough word to capture how much better your upstairs system sounds" is the exact quote of his reaction.  It sounded so good that we spent the next 2 hours just going through different music tracks to hear how awesome it sounded on the improved setup.  Love it when that happens.

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #165 on: 4 Jan 2020, 09:27 pm »
Today I'm supposed to be getting some errands done but I can't seem to get out of the sweet spot, listening to these damn things.  It's great, I have Qobuz which gives true hirez and IMO the best sound quality of all the music services.  I'm able to go through a lot of old recordings I'd written off as "poor" in the past, and actually enjoy them now - that's fantastic!

witchdoctor

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #166 on: 4 Jan 2020, 09:36 pm »
Looks like you had one helluva Happy New Year, enjoy your new setup.  :thumb:

maty

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #167 on: 8 Jan 2020, 09:52 am »

dflee

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 981
  • What's this we shit kemosahbee?
Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #168 on: 8 Jan 2020, 02:05 pm »
Reminds me of those John Cena Hefty commercials.
That pic just keeps saying "Hefty Hefty Hefty".

Don

ebag4

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #169 on: 9 Jan 2020, 04:48 am »
Do the Fortes have a 4 ohm woofer and 8 ohm horns?  Most of the older heritage lines used auto transformers to match the drivers levels, I didn’t see  any auto formers on the stock crossovers.  Just curious.

Thanks,
Ed

choff

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #170 on: 21 Jan 2020, 01:33 am »
I picked up a pair of Forte III's this week based on the high efficiency of the speaker and what I had hoped would be a good match with my restored Dynaco 70 and kit built Bottlehead tube preamps.  Out of the box I was loving the sound with jazz and classic rock, but I am struggling on my compressed modern recordings as the bass is overwhelming the room and balance of the sound.  Would the upgrade kit help tighten things up or shou!d I perhaps be looking for another speaker for my system?  Or are there other modifications I could make to the room and system to make these speakers work for me? Love everything about them but for the boom-ee bass. 

RonP

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 60
Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #171 on: 21 Jan 2020, 02:17 am »
Was the upgrade kit price ever posted?

witchdoctor

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #172 on: 21 Jan 2020, 02:57 am »
I picked up a pair of Forte III's this week based on the high efficiency of the speaker and what I had hoped would be a good match with my restored Dynaco 70 and kit built Bottlehead tube preamps.  Out of the box I was loving the sound with jazz and classic rock, but I am struggling on my compressed modern recordings as the bass is overwhelming the room and balance of the sound.  Would the upgrade kit help tighten things up or shou!d I perhaps be looking for another speaker for my system?  Or are there other modifications I could make to the room and system to make these speakers work for me? Love everything about them but for the boom-ee bass.

I would recommend the Paradigm Link Pre-Amp which comes with ARC room correction plus a huge number of streaming services, DLNA, DAC,etc, on sale now for around $199:

https://www.paradigm.com/en/wireless/pw-link

Review:https://www.soundandvision.com/content/paradigm-premium-wireless-multiroom-audio-system-review

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #173 on: 21 Jan 2020, 04:56 am »
I picked up a pair of Forte III's this week based on the high efficiency of the speaker and what I had hoped would be a good match with my restored Dynaco 70 and kit built Bottlehead tube preamps.  Out of the box I was loving the sound with jazz and classic rock, but I am struggling on my compressed modern recordings as the bass is overwhelming the room and balance of the sound.  Would the upgrade kit help tighten things up or shou!d I perhaps be looking for another speaker for my system?  Or are there other modifications I could make to the room and system to make these speakers work for me? Love everything about them but for the boom-ee bass. 

Oh they are definitely bass heavy speakers.  That's part of what I like about them.  Bracing the cabinet and adding norez definitely makes them less boomy and less muddy in the bass.  But the bass is still really strong even after all the upgrades. 

If your dynaco has the option to use 4ohm speaker taps, use those.  I found with my amps that using the 8ohm outputs resulted in really sloppy, overwhelmingly boomy bass. 

choff

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #174 on: 21 Jan 2020, 12:07 pm »
Thanks for the feedback Tyson. Glad to know I have some options. I’ll need to resolder the binding posts for a 4ohm connection, but it sounds like that would be a good place to start to see how things improve. 
« Last Edit: 21 Jan 2020, 02:07 pm by choff »

Sonicjoy

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 127
Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #175 on: 21 Jan 2020, 02:47 pm »
This has been fun to follow. I have never really thought of Klipsch as true audiophile speakers. Might have to rethink that view.
Thanks for posting and the videos are great! nice to put faces to names.

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #176 on: 21 Jan 2020, 03:20 pm »
Thanks for the feedback Tyson. Glad to know I have some options. I’ll need to resolder the binding posts for a 4ohm connection, but it sounds like that would be a good place to start to see how things improve. 

Yes for sure.  That will tighten up the bass quite a bit.  Next would be the norez and bracing, which will tighten it up further.  Finally, they may also be exciting a room mode in your listening room.  Best thing is to measure & see if that's the case.  If it is, a bass trap and/or EQ can knock it down. 

They are definitely more fussy to set up than my open baffle Super 7 speakers in the main system, because OB bass is just way easier to integrate into a room - so I feel your pain!  But for me, the strengths that the Fortes bring to the table outweigh their fussy nature in getting set up.

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #177 on: 21 Jan 2020, 04:24 pm »
And, since I can never leave well enough alone, here is what my crossover looks like now - all the Sonicaps are bypassed with Miflex copper:






nickd

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #178 on: 21 Jan 2020, 05:08 pm »
Love those Miflex coppers!
Wish I had known about them when I installed Sonicaps in my Altec model 14’s. Think it would have taken them to a better place. As good as the Sonicaps are, the Miflex Copper bypass caps take them to the next level.

The reasonable price is also a “win win” for sure.
Can’t wait to see how much difference they make on the Forte III’s with the GR upgrades. Nice test bed.

maty

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #179 on: 21 Jan 2020, 05:25 pm »
Talking about bypass caps. With tweeter cap I have Miflex KPCU-01 0.022uF 600Vdc with cheap yellow cap of 3.9 uF.

[IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/kef-q100/KEF-Q100-crossover-Miflex-KPCU-01-001uF-capacitor-Mills-06R8-5-watts-resistor.jpg

3.9 / 0.022 = 177.27 > 100, it is OK


But with the Full range woofer of my BIG "3-ways" maybe a bigger value is better idea.

[IMG, link] http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hum/cajas-grandotas-filtro-esquema-tres-vias.png

68 uF -> 0.47 or 0.33 uF -> bigger size and more expensive too

What do you think? Tyson, Danny and others.