Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!

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Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #60 on: 28 Dec 2019, 10:25 pm »
  Looks like a fun project to me. Thanks for photos. Is it possible to listen with original crossover and wiring first to find out results of enclosure treatment ? We could learn how important each improvement gives. The bracing and No-Rez end result is interesting in itself. Would not after measurements of such in determining the crossover mod ?
charles

Yep, we're going to have the original crossover and the new crossover sitting on the floor behind the speakers - we'll be able to swap back and forth in real time.  We'll start with the stock crossover so we can hear how it sounds vs what we heard yesterday, that will tell us how much the wiring, bracing, and Norez changes had on the speakers.

After that, we'll go back and forth between the 2 crossovers & see what differences that brings to the table.

veloceleste

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Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #61 on: 28 Dec 2019, 10:28 pm »
Following and reading with great interest. I have both Forte III's as well as 1990 Chorus II's with updated Crites crossovers and titanium diaphragms in both the tweeters and midrange horns. By far the Chorus II's are my favorite speakers owned to date.
I'll also be following. Years ago I went through a Klipsch phase and had Forte I and II, both stock and modified, and stock Chorus II which were one of my favorite speakers I ever owned. Last year I came back to Klipsch and bought a pair of Forte III that got me thinking about the Chorus again. I found a pair of Chorus II which I refreshed with Crites crossovers and titanium tweeter diagrams.  I like the Chorus II better than the Forte III so I sold the Forte III. This time the Chorus II are here to stay!

Jmitchell3

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #62 on: 28 Dec 2019, 11:06 pm »
Absolutely; the proof is in the listening.

While a lot of speakers could use some bracing (and damping), I always wonder about how the added bracing may alter (reduce) the internal volume. 

In the picture with the table saw, I can't tell the size of the braces (the lens appears to make them look bigger than they are.) It looks like the pile adds up to, at least, approx. 1 foot of cubic volume.

That aside, following with interest on how they will sound.

Probably for both speakers, so maybe half a foot per speaker?

ntjetsmoke

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Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #63 on: 28 Dec 2019, 11:19 pm »
Yep, we're going to have the original crossover and the new crossover sitting on the floor behind the speakers - we'll be able to swap back and forth in real time.  We'll start with the stock crossover so we can hear how it sounds vs what we heard yesterday, that will tell us how much the wiring, bracing, and Norez changes had on the speakers.

After that, we'll go back and forth between the 2 crossovers & see what differences that brings to the table.
I had Danny design a new crossover for a pair of Tekton Lore speakers. I also added Norez, new internal wiring and tube connectors on the speaker wiring. I am not sure which of the components was responsible for the largest amount of improvement. Combined these upgrades made this a very worth while effort.






Jon L

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #64 on: 29 Dec 2019, 04:08 am »
I'm gonna take a wild guess -- when it's done, Tyson is gonna report that these speakers sound far superior to stock, but they won't sound quite like Klipsch anymore. The magic will be gone, but a new appreciation will emerge. And then, because he learned so much from his experience with Danny, he's gonna seek to build the ultimate DIY speaker in 2020 that will supersede his Super 7's. Hint: it will have a helluva horn tweeter with repurposed Neo10's and 8" mid-bass drivers with copper nipples crossed over at 50Hz to triple OB servo subs up front and duals in the rear.

My guess would be similar  :thumb:

maty

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #65 on: 29 Dec 2019, 07:48 am »
Yep, we're going to have the original crossover and the new crossover sitting on the floor behind the speakers - we'll be able to swap back and forth in real time.  We'll start with the stock crossover so we can hear how it sounds vs what we heard yesterday, that will tell us how much the wiring, bracing, and Norez changes had on the speakers.

After that, we'll go back and forth between the 2 crossovers & see what differences that brings to the table.

I like it! You know, step by step to verify the changes.

With crossover finished is easy: first one loudspeaker and you can compare with the other (old crossover), changing the channel too. If the difference is overwhelming, it must also be noted, as it happened with my change of bypass capacitor and resistor in my small coaxials.

The improvement of the furniture will cause an appreciable sound change without a doubt (I hope for a better). We can see resonances:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-forte-iii-loudspeaker-measurements



What I would like you to verify specifically are the speaker connectors / binding pots, which would be my next improvement?

****** ******

Updated

https://www.google.com/search?q=Klipsch+Forte+III+Upgrade

This page is the first result.

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #66 on: 29 Dec 2019, 04:54 pm »
Alright, now we're talking - the thin plastic midrange horn is now damped:






And a group shot of ALL the drivers damped:




dflee

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Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #67 on: 29 Dec 2019, 06:13 pm »
What would be the purpose of dampening the passive?
Just curious and not trying to start anything.

Don

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #68 on: 29 Dec 2019, 06:19 pm »
OK, moving on to the crossover!  Here's the stock crossover.  I'll say this right away - even though the parts are pretty cheap/budget level, the actual design of the crossover is pretty good, so kudos to the Klipsch engineers, what they did was well done. 





And here's the new crossover, by itself and then next to the stock crossover:





I'll show the curves and plots later on this afternoon.  I'll say this, the new crossover is definitely a refinement over the original.  And parts quality is obviously better, as you can see. 

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #69 on: 29 Dec 2019, 06:23 pm »
What would be the purpose of dampening the passive?
Just curious and not trying to start anything.
Don

I'm only damping the steel frame, not the driver itself.  The frame is thin, resonant and acoustically reflective.  You can actually seem some of the acoustic energy "bounce back" in the spectral decay plots.  I don't think it was just the PR frame, I think it was all the drivers together cumulatively causing some internal reflections.  Those should be knocked out pretty nicely with the damping. 

dflee

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Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #70 on: 29 Dec 2019, 06:38 pm »
Closer look says I'm an idiot.
Liked the Forte III when I heard it. Would love to hear yours.
Cary on (please).
As for the crossover, will it fit inside?

Don

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #71 on: 29 Dec 2019, 07:25 pm »
Closer look says I'm an idiot.
Liked the Forte III when I heard it. Would love to hear yours.
Cary on (please).
As for the crossover, will it fit inside?

Don

Yep, it'll fit nicely - we measured the inside bottom of the speaker precisely before we cut the new crossover board.

maty

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #72 on: 29 Dec 2019, 07:34 pm »
Horns: Have you thought about bypass capacitors?

Tomy2Tone

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #73 on: 29 Dec 2019, 07:45 pm »
Did you try any Miflex?

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #74 on: 29 Dec 2019, 07:52 pm »
Did you try any Miflex?

Good idea - I almost forgot about the bypass caps - thanks for the reminder!

Early B.

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #75 on: 29 Dec 2019, 08:33 pm »
Tyson -- is this new crossover one that Danny re-designed or did you upgrade the parts only?

Tyson

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #76 on: 29 Dec 2019, 08:59 pm »
Tyson -- is this new crossover one that Danny re-designed or did you upgrade the parts only?

Redesign from scratch.

Jmitchell3

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #77 on: 29 Dec 2019, 09:54 pm »
Is Danny gonna make this crossover available as an upgrade kit?

Nick77

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #78 on: 29 Dec 2019, 09:54 pm »
Redesign from scratch.
Soo how does it sound?   :popcorn:

Early B.

Re: Klipsch Forte III Upgrade with Pictures!
« Reply #79 on: 29 Dec 2019, 11:42 pm »
Redesign from scratch.

OK. I was expecting to see Miflex or Danny's copper caps and perhaps some foil coils. Will that be phase 2?