Impressions of the Cayin 265Ai 40 wpc class A integrated?

JLM · « **on:** 9 Feb 2005, 10:36 am »

Link to a review: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/cayin-265ai-integrated-amplifier-3-2004.html

Another link: http://ecoustics.audioreview.com/pscAudioReview/Amplification/Integrated+Amplifiers/265Ai/PRD_320671_2717crx.aspx

This is a beautiful brushed aluminum $1400, 40 wpc class A purist integrated amp. So any opinions/knowledge of it?

Several folks I know have bought the $900 Cayin TA-30 30 wpc push-pull EL34 based tube integrated and have been quite impressed for the money. Professional reviews of the TA-30 have also been quite positive.

I'm assembling a system for a dedicated listening room that will include a Ack dAck! v.2 DAC, stock Sony DVP-S7700 to start moving to a CEC TL-51, and Bob Brines FTA-2000 speakers (a Fostex F200A full range driver based floorstanding mass loaded transmission line design). The F200A are high quality drivers that are rated 30-20,000 Hz, 90 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, 27 watts continous/80 watts peak. Like any Fostex I've heard, they prefer a warmer, good tube like sounding amp. But with their low frequency output, these speakers need a more dampened bass than tube amps typically provide. With the mass loaded transmission line loading they seem to drive very easy for the given efficiency rating.

I've also been looking at Audio Zone AMP-STi, JLTi-Mk II, Unison Unico P, Blue Circle CS, Vasant K GS-120S, and Portal Panache at similar street prices. Each are well reviewed with tube warmth and simple designs. Chip amps are supposed to mate well with single driver speakers.

BTW I listen to mostly classical and jazz at moderate levels. The room will be 13 ft x 21 ft x 8 ft and I plan on listening nearfield.

thanks for your input

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Feb 2005, 10:55 am »

JLM,

You might also take a look at the PrimaLuna...[/list:u]

JLM · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Feb 2005, 11:27 am »

LW42,

Regarding the Prima Luna, I tried a similar (but lower powered/more expensive) four tube EL34 integrated with my speakers last fall. Overall it sounded great, but flunked 20 - 50 Hz warble test tones at only 80 dB (violent, uncontrolled flutter of the driver). On music the bass was very "full" sounding to the point of being heavy and bloated.

That's why I'm looking to solid state.

tracertwo · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Feb 2005, 01:51 pm »

I also researched that amp with great interest,but was never able to find one used,or to find any distributor other than one in Canada.

RichWenzel · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 Feb 2005, 07:02 am »

but

www.thetunerguy.com

is a seller of cayin products...

in fact h has one listed on his site...

having said that i would look at the mh mambo as well...

Rich

JLM · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 Feb 2005, 10:42 pm »

Thanks for the link Rich.

The Mambo seems to have received lack er reviews by professional standards.

The other options I'm looking at include the 40 wpc Audio Zone AMP-STi chip amp:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audiozone2/zone.html

http://www.audiooasis.com/

or some kind of lower powered digital amp, like a tweaked Teac.

My speakers are Bob Brines FTA-2000, a floorstanding mass loaded transmission line enclosure that uses a single Fostex F200A driver. The speakers are rated in room at 30 - 20,000 Hz, 89 dB/w/m, 8 ohms, 27 wpc continous/80 wpc peak. I listen mostly to classical and jazz at moderate levels. The room will be 13 ft x 21 ft x 8 ft using a nearfield arrangement.

RichWenzel · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 08:18 pm »

according to reviewers of some mags, def tech is 98 performance...

i really didnt care for their sound....

not ragging on def tech...just pointing out its not the reviewers tastes im trying to satisfy...

listen to the mambo, then judge...

not saying its the greatest, but i wouldnt prejudge based on reviewers so much...

Rich

JLM · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 11:09 pm »

Rich,

Being stuck in the audio hinderlands I do most my research from professional and amateur reviews. I travel the state in my job and precious little of the "high-end" stuff available would interest most of us here. I've been to the homes of a few audio friends and three audio fests. Naturally internet based companies have to rely largely on trial periods.

Thankfully three nice guys lent me their amps for in-home auditions last fall and that proved most helpful.

RichWenzel · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Feb 2005, 07:06 am »

that 3 people did that...

im in pittsburgh right now, and from what i can tell, its kind of an audio gulag as well....

good luck finding what you want...

nature boy · « **Reply #9 on:** 13 Feb 2005, 01:41 pm »

JLM,

You might PM Doug S. about his thoughts on Audio Mirror's 40W Parallel-Single-Ended, Triode, Pure class"A" Amplifier. Here is some information about their monoblocks and a link to their web page: http://audiomirror.com/.

This is a 40W parallel-single ended, all triode power amplifier. This amp is pretty much the same as a 20W one, but uses a "heavy artillery" big, powerful Russian 6C33C triode. It is a mono block design suitable for those who do not uses efficient speakers. This amp will drive any speakers. 6C33C is a 60W output triode. This is a Russian, military version tube, very popular from OTL amp designs and brands such as "Graaf" and "Balanced Audio Technology" The amp uses the same parallel-single-ended configuration, pure class "A". Input (6H9C/6SL7)and driver(6H8C/6SN7) stage are based on triodes connected in a shunt regulated push-pull (SRPP) configuration, giving very low distortion, ultra high linearity and high dynamic of music performance. This is a hand-wired "point-to-point" amp with a critically selected components. Input and output terminals are gold plated and the signal runs through silver wires.

* Specifications:
o Output Power (8 ohms): 40W per channel minimum RMS
o Frequency Response 20Hz- 58 000Hz (+0,-1dB)
o T.H.D. <0.8%
o S/N Ratio >90dB
o Input Sensitivity 1.2V
o Power Consumption 360W
o AC supply 110/120Vor 220/240V

Price: $2 290.00 for a pair of monoblocks

Looks pretty nice!

NB

J North · « **Reply #10 on:** 13 Feb 2005, 04:13 pm »

I think Sam Tellig "reviewed" the Mambo and liked it, but did not gush about it like he usually does. Does that mean it is an inferior amp? His main complaint was that it lacked detail.

I listened to the Cayin in a couple systems. It sounded a bit on the cold, sterile and flat side to me in both systems. Just because something is biased class A does not mean that it will sound like tubes. It did run fairly warm though.

I have not heard it, but the Blue Circle CS sounds like something that may work for you. It is a single ended SS design that has a certain purity to it that should work well with your Fostex. The Manley Stingray may be another consideration. I also really like the Vecteur integrateds. Hard to find used though as people hold onto them.

Good luck . . .

doug s. · « **Reply #11 on:** 13 Feb 2005, 08:13 pm »

hi,

nb mentioned i have a pair of audio-mirror amps. true, & i think they're fantastic, driving a pair of coincident victory's. typical warm tubes sound, but the detail is still all there. can't comment, really, on the ultimate bass performance, as i am using subs. but, imo, *everyone* should *always* use a pair of subs for ultimate 2-channel!

the build-quality of the audiomirrors are less-than-stellar, but they have been quite reliable. mine is an early model, perhaps build quality has improved a bit on later model stuff. check agon auctions - audiomirror occasionally auctions off new gear. may even wanna email vlad (audiomirror owner/builder) directly, to see when he's gonna run another auction. i know he auctioned off a pair of the 20w monoblocks at the end of last year, for ~$1k...
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?ampstube&1101789760&1&3&1&

re: integrated amps, i would look for an integrated that has preamp outputs/main inputs. this allows for great flexibility for future use, especially the ability to actively cross over and use the integrated's amp for, say the monitors, if it's tubed, & use an outboard s/s amp for subs. here's a link to an old auction, for an integrated amp that dint sell - i'd give the seller a call to see if he still has it - killer all-toob integrated, w/remote control, and the pre outs/main ins, that i mentioned. it was highly regarded by reviewers, its only weakness being a touch loose in the lowest octaves. mite be a good match w/the fostex, tho; and if ya put a s/s amp on a pair of actively crossed over subs, it's not an issue!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5740866323

doug s.

JLM · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 02:59 am »

Thanks for the replies.

Guess I cross the Cayin off my list. And no, not really interested in tube amps after a rather bad experience with a nice one.

What would really be great would be to find someone to build a AMP-STi clone. Specialized Kits sells the parts for $300. Both are designed by Peter Daniels and look almost identical.

Of course maybe somebody inventive could come up with a digital similar to the battery powered Clari-T with multiple inputs and more power. Now that could be a real killer.

Music Maven · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 04:42 am »

JLM, I take it you're after some great-value solid-state integrateds...

I can't help you specifically, but you might frequently look at Audiogon.com under "amplifiers" where integrated amps are listed. It's my opinion that nearly ANY electronic product ever known to modern man shows up there if you give it enough time. You will at least learn some of the names and then if something appeals to you, you can post here and probably someone has heard it...

Jerry

JLM · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 10:19 am »

Jerry,

Yes, I'm very cheap.

So I've been checking A'gon daily. The $2000 Audio Zone AMP-1 has been selling new there at below retail. Now with a friendlier version (the AMP-STi) available with a retail of $1300, I don't know where the market for the AMP-1 will be. Nice amps, bit still overpriced when you look at content and consider that Peter Daniels did his R&D in his spare time as an avid hobbiest. Not overpriced based on performance, especially when mated to single driver speakers.

A cheaper alternative to Audio Zone would be Scott Nixon. But I've heard that his amps could be a bit too warm sounding. As I've got a dAck! v.2 coming, a 20 wpc or so battery powered integrated would be nice too to get farther off the grid. But that amp hasn't been invented yet.

We're building a new house that will include an 8 ft x 13 ft x 21 ft listening room that's isolated electrically and acoustically. Those FTA-2000 speakers are from Bob Brines and use single Fostex F200A full range drivers to produce in room 30 - 20,000 Hz at 8 ohms in floorstanding mass loaded transmission line cabinets. The drivers are only rated to 27 watts continuous/80 watts peak.

I've listened to tubes on and off for three years now, but never owned them. Most are overly warm and the one I tried couldn't control the bass on my FTA-2000 speakers (20 - 50 Hz warbles caused near melt-down at only 80 dB, on music the bass was bloated/overly full) but otherwise really sounded quite good. So I'm looking for a bit of tube warmth and solidity of imaging from solid state.

The system I'm putting together is "the" one for a long while. I've never been an frequent swapper of audio equipment. So I don't mind spending a bit more if thats what it takes to get it really right this time. Even though I believe that for $1500 the FTA-2000 were a bargain, I don't want to spend more on the amp than that, just because I'm more of a speaker guy than amp guy.

doug s. · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: JLM

Thanks for the replies.

Guess I cross the Cayin off my list. And no, not really interested in tube amps after a rather bad experience with a nice one.

What would really be great would be to find someone to build a AMP-STi clone. Specialized Kits sells the parts for $300. Both are designed by Peter Daniels and look almost identical.

Of course maybe somebody inventive could come up with a digital similar to the battery powered Clari-T with multiple inputs and more power. Now that could be a real killer.

i wouldn't give up on toobs; yust my personal feelings, of course. it's s/s that i've given up on!

mebbe when digital amplification gets more established, i will give it another shot. something like vinnie's clari-t-amp really sounds interesting, but i want more power, and i really need an amp that can run on ac, when the battery needs recharging.

re: conwentional s/s gear, i owned a thule ia100 integrated amp. really nice - especially for the $$$. it was a credible stand-in, while i got my tube rig back up-n-running!

wery smooth, unlike a lot of s/s gear, yet still detailed. reminds me a lot of electrocompaniet gear, which i also like, but ec is a bit more pricey. and, i heard that they recently went outta biz. that's a shame. but it means ya may find ec gear for a good peice on the used market.

doug s.

Hogg · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 11:10 pm »

Have you considered the Sugden 21A? It's a great amp strongly biased to class A operation. It's only 25 watts.

Florian · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 11:16 pm »

Another fine unit might be the Pathos Acoustics Classic One. I have own on my Maggie 1.6 and 3.6 in germany.