[OlesonMD]

In a word, no. Before you call me crazy (or worse), I have been looking at this in my personal home theater. Our equipment is current state-of-the-art, 4K. Including the processor (Yamaha CX-A5200), projector (Epson 5050UB), and player (Panasonic DMP-UB900).

I even did a side-by-side shoot out with my previous projector, the reliable and very good Panasonic PTAE-8000U.

Screen size = 155" diagonal.
Room size = 27' long X 24' wide.

Sitting in the "sweet spot", about 14' from the screen, my human analog eyes could discern little if any difference between HD 1080P Blu-ray videos, and UHD 4K. Switching out discs of the same movie, one 4K, one 1080P, virtually zero difference. If you get within one or two feet of the screen, there might be some difference. Might is the key word here.

We just did a major upgrade in all of our equipment ($$$). Had I known then what I know now...the money would have been spent (or saved) elsewhere.

And this, from Consumer Reports:

Consumer Reports did a side-by-side comparison: 4K content on 4K TVs, and the same movie on Blu-ray with a 1080p TVs. They found, "...yes--the 4K films did show a noticeable bump in image detail compared to their HD counterparts. But there's a caveat: These differences were not present on all movies, and were visible only when viewed less than 2 feet from the screen, and even then only on certain scenes. When I moved back about 7 feet from the displays, differences between 4K and HD content were not discernible to any meaningful degree."

Could not have said it better myself.

[Tyson]

I have the opposite experience - I see a big difference on my 100" screen, but not so much with resolution.  Resolution I do see a small improvement but not huge. 

No, the big change I see is color density, saturation, overall film-like look.  Blacks are way, way better.  At least on my setup.

In other words, it's not 4k that's the game changer, it's HDR.

[OlesonMD]

I have the opposite experience - I see a big difference on my 100" screen, but not so much with resolution.  Resolution I do see a small improvement but not huge. 

No, the big change I see is color density, saturation, overall film-like look.  Blacks are way, way better.  At least on my setup.

Good for you! Your setup/equipment must be a step above mine.

But I’m not arguing with Consumer Reports, or CNET, where there is plenty of good info on 4K.

[Tyson]

Good for you! Your setup/equipment must be a step above mine.

I have an Epson too   I should point out that the Epsons don't have true 4k resolution they use pixel shifting to get close to it.  So you and I can see an uptick in detail using an Epson, but less of a bump than someone using full 4k like the Sony projectors. 

Honestly that's less important to me than color rendering, and in that area the Epson's shine, they have phenomenal optical elements and render color exceptionally well.

[DaveC113]

I'm looking into a new monitor for general use including video editing for online content... It's hard to say whether a 4K monitor is worthwhile as you sacrifice other features or pay a lot more money for it.   

[dminches]

I have 3 4k displays or projectors and on them 4k is MUCH nicer than 1080p.  The NFL games that are broadcast on 4k are a big step above the 1080p ones in color and contrast.  Much more lifelike even thought 1080p is excellent on its own.

[charmerci]

Could it be that it's the "mastering" of the movies?


I do remember seeing an outside direct feed to a 106 inch screen on HD - it was so lifelike compared to anything I've seen since. (P.S. I don't have a TV.)


Also, 4 K is going to lead to 8K, etc. This will lead us to higher and higher resolutions to where holographic projections WILL need the much higher resolutions.

[OlesonMD]

Also, 4 K is going to lead to 8K, etc. This will lead us to higher and higher resolutions to where holographic projections WILL need the much higher resolutions.

Perhaps. But the human eye is analog, and can only perceive a limited amount of resolution. In your field of view, a very narrow part is what you focus on.

In my case, sitting 14' back from a 155" screen, it is doubtful that any higher resolution will be worth the huge amount of expense required to get it.

Plus when I ran two movies back to back, one HD 1080P, one UHD 4K (Dunkirk & Saving Private Ryan), there was almost no difference. Maybe my 1080P is so good with the Epson 5050UB, plus the Panasonic DMP-UB900, that it really won't get much better.

I don't think there is any broadcast now from the major networks in 4K. Maybe Netflix. But I don't watch TV.

[Freo-1]

Yes,  4K is better than 1080p.  I watch a fair bit of NHL this time of year.  The stream to a 70" Sony is 4K,  and it's sharper than 1080p by quite a bit.   

[dminches]

I don't think there is any broadcast now from the major networks in 4K. Maybe Netflix. But I don't watch TV.

Fox broadcasts in 4k.  They did some of the MLB playoffs in 4k and they do some NFL games in 4k.

[Norman Tracy]

This thread is intermingling projector, HDTV flat panel, and PC monitor users. And sources off disk, broadcast, and streaming. Perhaps best to specify some details when relating our personal observations.

My experience tends towards Tyson's "it's not 4k that's the game changer, it's HDR". However I will hasten to add I have respect for OlesonMD's and Consumer Reports' tests.

At many screen sizes and distances when "identical" source material is used it can be hard to spot the differences between 1080P and 4k when looking a the same movie. Where I fault the discussion is that "identical" is almost never that. To really do a peer reviewed science publication quality test on the limits of human visual perception of resolution one would need to control both the screen and the source. The projector or panel needs to be able to bypass all video processing, And the source needs to be an uncompressed 1080P or 4k feed. Out here in the real world with displays and sources available to us regular folks every display has what used to be super computer processing power re-sampling and reformatting the image to the native pixels it has. And copies of the same movie on DVD, Blu-ray, or Blu-ray 4kHDR has its unique mastering history. So if I compare 'The 5th Element' off DVD vs Blu-ray vs Amazon 4k UHD streaming and say 'yes' or 'no' I see a difference am I commenting on the format, or the display+signal chain, or source material? I maintain its a comment on all three of those elements.

My personal experience is a couple of months ago my beloved Panasonic 55" 1080P plasma died . Replaced it with a Sony 65" LED with full local LED back light dimming, 4k, and HDR. If I lived alone I would have gone OLED but I was tired of nagging the family about screen burn-in. We are a streaming household and most content is still at 1080p. I have not invested in a 4k disk player because we rent video content and do not buy it. When I get my videophile on and pull some 4k content off YouTube or Amazon it looks stunning. My guess is half that stunning picture is due to my shiny new Sony and half is the 4k and 8k video cameras used to create it.

One area where 4k HDR display surprises is my digital photo collection. I have a media PC and set it to run slide show screen savers. Occasionally a photo I know quite well will display with colors and details I was completely unaware existed on that image. That is the big reason I think HDR and the display panel engineering behind it is the big deal here.

[Doublej]

Could it be that it's the "mastering" of the movies?


I do remember seeing an outside direct feed to a 106 inch screen on HD - it was so lifelike compared to anything I've seen since. (P.S. I don't have a TV.)


Also, 4 K is going to lead to 8K, etc. This will lead us to higher and higher resolutions to where holographic projections WILL need the much higher resolutions.

Yes it could definitely be the mastering of the movies and/or the equipment used to originally create it.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I too notice a huge difference in detail and picture quality with 4K and 8K TV's  compared to 1080p but the caveat is that the content must be filmed for 4K or 8K.  At our local BB Magnolia store I was able to compare pictures from 7-10 feet away on 65" and larger  TV's.

[twitch54]

OMG, for sure, 4k is way better than  '108P'   !!

[OlesonMD]

In my theater, with my Epson 5050UB, driven by my Panasonic DMP-UB900, with the Yamaha CX-A5200, not much better than human analog eyes can detect sitting 14' away from a 155" screen. The deep blacks and colors are already outstanding.

I won't waste any money on UHD 4K Blu-rays anymore, since a good 1080P transfer looks about as good. And is way cheaper!

The Epson with the Panasonic makes everything look good. 1080P, 720P, 4K.

[ctviggen]

On my one and only TV, when I play 4k native material, there is a step up in clarity.  However, I still play plenty of DVDs on it.  It's also not that big (maybe 52 inches).  And we sit pretty far away.  The only 4k material I see is from Fire TV. 

But wait!  8k is coming:

https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/01/samsungs-qled-8k-tv-will-be-one-of-the-first-certified-by-the-8/

[borism]

human analog eyes can detect

Just a comment about human vision. While the optical elements of the eye - cornea, lens, vitreous body, etc - can be seen as analog, the retina containing photoreceptors (rods and cones = 96 million) is probably not - due to the finite number of receptors. There is a physical limit to resolution.

[Tom Bombadil]

Through my eyes with 20/15 vision, sitting 6' from a 55" TV, I can definitely see a difference between a 4K Blu ray disc vs a 1080 Blu ray disc.  To me it is obvious in just about every scene.  However my viewing partner claims to not see a difference.

[OlesonMD]

Through my eyes with 20/15 vision, sitting 6' from a 55" TV, I can definitely see a difference between a 4K Blu ray disc vs a 1080 Blu ray disc.  To me it is obvious in just about every scene.  However my viewing partner claims to not see a difference.

The real test would be a double blind viewing. Have two displays, same TV's, same program material, but one 4K UHD video, and one showing a 1080P Blu-ray. Sit 6' from your 55" screen, and pick out the 4K.

[rollo]

  All I know is that the stores are reducing prices big time for 4K. Big savings at PC Richards.


charles