Which Software Audio Player Is The Grooviest?

Brian T. · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 07:24 pm »

Quote from: EchiDna

foobar2k with ASIO out plugin

try it for yourself, winamp etc sound very different indeed - less dynamic, more "compression" (dunno if that would a be an accurate description or not...) anyway, these are all free downloads, so just grab em and play around and settle on the one you prefer the sound of

Sorry to be 'thick'

I can understand why different apps can influence recording but why would a player sound different (ie Foobar2K v. Musicmatch say)? Surely a player just routes the wav file to the sound card.

Brian

ted_b · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 07:44 pm »

Good question. PC audio players are like passive preamps, but those sound different as well. I think the major reasons are the amounts of code required to pass the wav (or flac or whatever) sound file, and the vehicle it uses. Foobar was created to be a very minimalist audio player (the skins and the like are all 3rd party plug-ins). Foobar is nice in that it can accomodate Asio, kernel streaming and other "straight wire with gain" kinds of vehicles that get around the sound gremlins that code like Windows kmixer introduces. However, if Winamp can use kernel streaming, then I would guess they sound awfully similar.

Ted

JoshK · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 07:49 pm »

what is 'kernel streaming'?

Adarsh · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 08:00 pm »

It can sound differenct because of the output options.

Foobar allows many options for sound optimization such as using different drivers, on the contrary Windows Media Player 10 is more user friendly but caters less for the audiophile in terms of sound adjustment.

-A

ted_b · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 Feb 2005, 08:56 pm »

Kernel Streaming (KS) is a broad term for the services that support kernel-mode processing of streamed data. KS enables efficient real-time streaming for multimedia devices such as sound cards and TV tuner cards.

Why use kernel streaming as you audio vehicle, or Asio? Because it gets around Windows internal kmixer software (that mixing console that comes up when you bring up the Windows volume control) that adds noise and extra processing to your sound. Kernel Streaming is an option you choose in Foobar's sound preferences. You need the kernel streaming plug-in that comes with one of the foobar download versions (not sure which one it is, I believe it's called foobar special).

Ted

grub · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 Feb 2005, 05:44 am »

I just picked up foobar 2000 recently (thanks to this thread). Don't believe the website, this thing sounds better than the stock media player. It sounds more detailed and there's less harshness in the treble (to my ears).
Me Likey,
-->grub

ted_b · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 Feb 2005, 03:16 pm »

What stock media player? Do you mean you downloaded the special fb2k or are you referring to fb2k's sound vs Windows Media Player? Or are you just referring to their typical disclaimer in the FAQ that they don't inherently sound better than other audio players, but have more features? Let us know how you have this configured (i.e wav out, Asio, kernel streaming, etc).

Ted

grub · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 Feb 2005, 09:37 pm »

I'm talking about foobar 2K vs. windows media player (10 I think). I downloaded whatever version of f2K they're offering on the website.

Everythings bone stock except for the color scheme. It looks like I've got the kernel streaming turned on. When I click on it (under preferences), I can adjust the buffering.
It's much easier to listen to than the WMP.
-->grub

dave_c · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 Feb 2005, 11:54 pm »

The main reason to avoid KMixer is that it resamples everything to 16bit / 48K. Foobar will pass 16 bit / 44.1k untouched, or various other bit depths and sampling rates via the SSRC resampler plugin. Right now mine is set to 24bit padded to 32bit / 96khz to ASIO4All plugin. If you use a cheap Chaintech AV710 you can send bit perfect SPDIF at 24/96 to throught the optical output. Most motherboard SPDIF outputs must go through the KMixer.

Adarsh · « **Reply #29 on:** 13 Feb 2005, 01:05 pm »

What is ASIO, is it on all sound cards?

ted_b · « **Reply #30 on:** 13 Feb 2005, 02:29 pm »

Quote from: Adarsh

What is ASIO, is it on all sound cards?

ASIO stands for Audio Stream In/Out, and is an audio driver standard that became popular with recordists because it's latency is very low (sing into mic and hear voice immediately). This prompted audiophiles to find out that it is a very good driver for audophile sound due to the same good architecture (simple soundpath, gets around kmixer, etc.) ASIO drivers are available for many soundcards, and some ship them with the software. Asio4all is a universal driver available at www.asio4all.com, but is really only mapped to WDM files correctly. Some have succesfully used it with Foobar but it's a pain. That's why I use kernel streaming (and never looked for a decent ASIO driver for my Chaintech cuz, although they are now available, why fix what ain't broke).

Ted

EchiDna · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 12:21 am »

the other important thing to note is that creative cards (all of em, yes even the latest audigy 4) resample to 16bit/48k and use the windows mixer.... hence the audio based PC is no place for anything made by them

there is plenty of other options and the cheap chaintech that ted_b is speaking about is the ideal solution for people on a budget or wanting to try without spending much... you can get better (a fact I'm sure he would admit, but the $$ are not necessarily easy to justify).

ted_b · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 01:29 am »

Absolutely! My Chaintech is one of audio's best bargains, but that doesn't mean it's anywhere near the top 10 of soundcards (Lynx, Emu, RME, etc.). I'm not asking much of my soundcard currently; it simply drives a headphone amp and my Sennheiser 580's mostly. But if needed, it produces a bit-perfect playback for any DAC that's ready for the bigs.

Ted

Adarsh · « **Reply #33 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 11:46 am »

Quote

the other important thing to note is that creative cards (all of em, yes even the latest audigy 4) resample to 16bit/48k and use the windows mixer.... hence the audio based PC is no place for anything made by them

If they resampled how come I can still hear the difference?

Adarsh

EchiDna · « **Reply #34 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 12:05 pm »

Quote from: Adarsh

Quote
the other important thing to note is that creative cards (all of em, yes even the latest audigy 4) resample to 16bit/48k and use the windows mixer.... hence the audio based PC is no place for anything made by them

If they resampled how come I can still hear the difference?

Adarsh

Adarsh, did you mean you heard a difference between the different Creative's?
were they of the same generation or not?

ie:
Soundblaster series
AWE series
Live Series
Audigy series

Anyway, all of 'em reclock redbook 44.1k to 48k.

Adarsh · « **Reply #35 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 12:09 pm »

Yes, the Creative cards.

-A

ted_b · « **Reply #36 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 02:08 pm »

Adarsh,
Are you running them all to the same DAC? Which DAC is it?

Ted

Adarsh · « **Reply #37 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 02:22 pm »

There is no DAC

ted_b · « **Reply #38 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: Adarsh

There is no DAC

Wait a minute. Adarsh, if there is no DAC then how are you evaluating the resampling? You are listening to the analog outs! Those sound different among the cards because they are!! The cheapest ones use $.20 opamps.

Ted

Adarsh · « **Reply #39 on:** 14 Feb 2005, 02:50 pm »

I'm using the analog outputs from the sound card. I dunno about the DAC.