[John Casler]

Hi All,

Many know I have been working on several multi-SUB set up scenarios.

In fact, I have developed (and am still developing) some additional aspects to this system, that I think will change musical bass as we now set it up, and calibrate it.

One part of this system is the R-DES system.

I will have a sample system in the very near future, which will allow me to answer additional questions about it.

I will offer it to all VMPS clients and customers.

As soon as I am sure these are available for shipment I will make sure there is a special introductory price for VMPS sub owners, and special "packages" if it is purchased with any VMPS SUB(s).

More information coming soon

[Florian]

Hey John !!  

The first payment made it. Still waiting for number 2  
But i think this week ill be ready for the RM30  . Say what does your system do with the subs ? Does it calibrate it ?

[DTB300]

It is will be made by Onix...

Read this threed...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=16624.msg145148#145148&sid=5bede6a62c7306a9edeee8185efff62e

[John Casler]

Hey John !!  

The first payment made it. Still waiting for number 2  
But i think this week ill be ready for the RM30  . Say what does your system do with the subs ? Does it calibrate it ?

Hi Florian,

Glad to hear your getting closer to the RM30s

The R-DES system is a Digital Equalization System that allows you to measure your room, enter the data on a computer, and then download the corrections into a device that is placed "inline" with the SubWoofers.

It allows you to enter and store up to 4 sets of equilization curves.  So for example you could have:

1) HT Curve
2) Classic Rock Curve
3) Classical/Orchestral Curve
4) Jazz Curve

Or

1) Redbook/SACD/CD Curve
2) Vinyl Curve
3) Dolby Digital Curve
4) DTS Curve

Or if your Basically Home Theater

1) DTS Curve
2) Dolby Digital Curve
3) THX Curve
4) Dolby ProLogic II and other Processed Curves

So as you can see it is quite flexible.

While I haven't verified this, I think if you wish to  have additional curves actually "in the system", (you can store thousands on the computer that can be downloaded in seconds) you could "daisy chain" and use the pass thru, of two or more units.

I think however that 4 will be sufficient for most users.

"MY" developing bass system also requires additional hardware.

1) Front and rear VMPS SubWoofers (preferably stereo pairs)
2) Crossover/Phase/Boundary/and other controls
3) and the R-DES device
4) Additional proprietary set up and calibration procedures, and techniques

I might also add that the R-DES can also be used on the woofer section of any Speaker Systems Woofers as long as they can be seperately amplified.

This means you could add it to the RM1/RM1a/RM2/RM30/RM40/RM/x.

[mac]

The R-DES system is a Digital Equalization System that allows you to measure your room...

It has built-in measurement capability?  Does it also include a calibrated mic?  This would be a compelling reason to choose it instead of a full-function Behringer digital EQ.

[ctviggen]

I believe that you have to measure your own room using some other software, then enter the data.  I don't think they could offer the product for $400 and include the measurement software (ETF is $150 I think, and a calibrated mic is $250).

[BradJudy]

The R-DES system is a Digital Equalization System that allows you to measure your room...

It has built-in measurement capability?  Does it also include a calibrated mic?  This would be a compelling reason to choose it instead of a full-function Behringer digital EQ.

Not at the moment.  They have commented that this is in the plans for a future add-on to the product and I think is a requirement for a lot of users.

[BradJudy]

I believe that you have to measure your own room using some other software, then enter the data.  I don't think they could offer the product for $400 and include the measurement software (ETF is $150 I think, and a calibrated mic is $250).

While I expect it to cost more, the numbers you have noted are a bit high.  Software should be no more than $100 (TrueRTA level 4) and a calibrated mic and pre-amp can be had for no more than $150 (ECM8000, basic pre-amp and the calibration services recommended by TrueRTA).  Since relative information is what is important rather than absolute, calibration of a microphone is not necessary.

[John Casler]

The R-DES system is a Digital Equalization System that allows you to measure your room...

It has built-in measurement capability?  Does it also include a calibrated mic?  This would be a compelling reason to choose it instead of a full-function Behringer digital EQ.

Hi Mac,

I don't have the sample unit yet, so I can't say.  I will report when it arrives.

[ctviggen]

The numbers I wrote are absolutely correct (actually low).  see:

http://www.acoustisoft.com/online%20order.htm

While it's true that you can buy cheaper stuff (and I for one am going to use my RS meter for "free"), it's hard to believe that a $400 product is going to include $100 (your value) or $150 (my value) of software in addition to a passthrough device in addition to a user interface with the passthrough device, let alone include a calibrated mic.  I'd be flabbergasted if that were the case.  Heck, I'll be very happy just with the passthrough device and the user interface, which is what I believe is included.

[BradJudy]

Bob,

R-DES definitely only includes the box and software for configuring it for $400.  I hope I didn't imply otherwise.  

The items I noted were the ones recommended by the folks working on R-DES and measurement for Onix.  There are certainly other options out there.

[ctviggen]

Oops -- my fault.  By the way, I tried to use the ETF software last night, and I ran into some problems, one of which was caused by my own stupidity (I used the microphone input and not the line input; I didn't realize this until today, however).  Anyway, I'm interested to see what the low frequency reponse looks like to see how well the R-DES could help my situation.  I think the R-DES is a reasonably priced option, until one can afford to go with one of the room/speaker correcting options.

[John Casler]

The R-DES system is a Digital Equalization System that allows you to measure your room...

It has built-in measurement capability?  Does it also include a calibrated mic?  This would be a compelling reason to choose it instead of a full-function Behringer digital EQ.

Hi Mac,

Talk about dense....I really didn't know why you ask that question until I re-read the post again today.  

Although it has been answered, no there is no "on board" measurement capability.

What I meant is that the R-DES allows you to

1) Measure your room (using any method you choose)
2) enter the data on a computer via the R-DES software interface
3) then download the corrections into a device that is placed "inline" with the SubWoofers

Sorry for the late "understanding".

[John Casler]

Well, I've reached the conclusion that I can't use the R-DES in my situation.   I want to use both subs and the main speakers to produce bass.   I currently have an NHT X2 active crossover that runs the subs at about 50Hz and lower, but I'm also running the main speakers (RM40s) full range.  If I use the R-DES on the subs only, I could get rid of one (massive!) peak below 50Hz.  However, all my other peaks are above 50 Hz.  What this means is that I'd have to apply the R-DES to less than 200 Hz (for instanc ...

Hi Bob,

Since this is a VMPS based system, I copied and pasted this post to this VMPS/R-DES thread.

Since I am familiar with your speakers, x-over, and the R-DES (a bit), give me an idea of the frequency problems you are having.

[John Casler]

Just received my "SAMPLE" R-DES unit and will be putting it through its paces over the next few days.

This is one sweet little unit, and has a feature, I was not fully aware of, and that is, it offers full "Low Pass" filtering ability.

This is offered in a selectable 2nd order Butterworth filter which rolls off at 12dB per octave or a 4th order Linkwitz-Riley filter which rolls off at 24dB/octave.

For those "blending" their subs with floor standing speakers that they are running "full range" this is a nice feature

[ctviggen]

John,

As it currently stands, I have a massive peak around 28 Hz (approximately the calculated peak for my room dimensions).  This is the only peak in subwoofer range.  There are 3-4 more large peaks between about 50 to 200 Hz, where the ETF program stops recording data.  I can be more specific if you'd like.

[John Casler]

John,

As it currently stands, I have a massive peak around 28 Hz (approximately the calculated peak for my room dimensions).  This is the only peak in subwoofer range.  There are 3-4 more large peaks between about 50 to 200 Hz, where the ETF program stops recording data.  I can be more specific if you'd like.

You  might try running the RM40s (high passed through the X-2) to slope off under say 80Hz.  With the new woofer/x-over the crossover is set higher around 200Hz.  Just set the switch on the back of the X-2 to 80hz, and "high pass" to them via the X-2.

This would mean the RM40s woofs would do some serious upper and midbass damage from 200 down to the gentle roll off.  Remember 80Hz is just where the "slope" begins, not where the woofers shut down.

Then "low pass" your LARGER subs through the X-2 with the "low pass" wide open. (220hz)

Then add the Digital Equalization.

The R-DES will allow you to "slope" the sub in at either 24db or 12db at any frequency from 200 down.

I would try them at say 100hz - 120hz with the 24db slope.  

Then fire up the whole system, and run test tones from 250Hz down.

I used a RS meter and simply entered the readings into a special spreadsheet that I created for my R-DES/VMPS Sub clients that "corrects" and graphs the LF curve in a way that resembles the R-DES curve.

I have developed a formula that tells you the frequencies to adjust, gives you an idea of how wide you want the band to be, and how much adjustment is needed.

R-DES allows you to "select" the frequency you wish to adjust.

It also allows you to select the amount of adjustment.

Then it allows you to adjust the "width" of the bandwith affected (that is, if you are dealing with a "spike" or a "trough", you can widen or narrow the affected area.

This would only make adjustment to the subs, and only affect the Frequency Range from the 100Hz "roll in" on down.

I'm only in "day 2" of trying different "presets" and must say it really works well

(but it is rather complicated in my case since I have "TWO" Pairs of LARGER subs, to play with putty and placement, "TWO" x-overs to adjust level settings, phase adjustment, and such, and the R-DES equalization system to add to the mix. and then there are 4 "curve" settings to evaluate         )