Tube guy wanting to try SS amp?!?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #40 on:** 28 Oct 2019, 06:37 pm »

I believe SS SE amps as tube amps also have great musicality to offer to the audiophiles and music lovers.

JackD · « **Reply #41 on:** 28 Oct 2019, 09:59 pm »

Interesting option, $318 if you build it and $488 assembled. I have a friend that uses it sometimes with his Avantgarde Duo's.

https://www.akitika.com/GT102.html#

OzarkTom · « **Reply #42 on:** 28 Oct 2019, 10:25 pm »

Quote from: planet10 on 28 Oct 2019, 12:46 am

With what speakers?

dave

With a pair of Alnicos from the place in St. Louis. Audio Nirvana I believe.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Oct 2019, 02:41 am »

Quote from: khill on 27 Oct 2019, 09:05 pm

Windchaser’s comment is what I’m afraid I’m going to find when trying to settle on a SS amp. I have been seduced by the Single Ended sound! The soundstage and seductive midrange is what I have not been able to get even with much more expensive push pull tube designs.

Anyone considering SS in lieu of a SET isn’t merely doing so to shake things up, they need more power. If 8 watts isn’t enough, 25 watts won’t quench the demand - which means you can pass on First Watt.

If you need another 10 dbs to fill a bigger room, you’re looking at 60 watts. And should you decide to upgrade your speakers, chances are they will be more difficult to drive which could necessitate even more power.

No one accustomed to the SET experience will be satisfied with anything push pull or some high powered SS behemoth, whether it operates in Class A or AB. None of those things are viable options as an alternative to the SET when it comes to sound quality.

IMO / experience, having owned a variety of SET amps, there is a path forward without triodes that is so satisfying you’ll never look back.

genjamon · « **Reply #44 on:** 29 Oct 2019, 04:09 am »

I dunno, Wind Chaser. My Odyssey Kismets do things with soundstaging that my 845 amp can't do. And the Odyssey is not that far off in other aspects of sound quality either. Of course the SET does things the Kismet doesn't do too. But it's not like a completely different experience, nor a one-sided comparison. These amps are a mixed bag in terms of comparison in my opinion, and don't neatly fit stereotypes of SS vs SET.

And regarding power, I didn't start looking beyond the 845 amp due to power needs. I'm currently using Zu Omen Dirty Weekends - at 97dB sensitivity, and have been using 96dB+ speakers for the last decade or longer. The Line Magnetic 518ia's 22 watts of 845 goodness are plenty of power AND balls for realistic sound at home. I've never run out of power with that amp. No, I was trying to escape the scorching fusion reactors that are 845 tubes with my SS expedition. That, and the exorbitant retubing cost every year or two, if used as the dedicated amp in all seasons.

I'm sure the OP has a range of reasons why he's looking around.

JLM · « **Reply #45 on:** 29 Oct 2019, 10:27 am »

My NAD M10 is by far the best sounding amp I've owned in 40+ years. Have tried tube integrated amps, one had exaggerated bass, the other was only slightly better than a first generation class D. An ancient McIntosh was the worse sounding amp I've owned. A Tripath sounded remarkably good considering the load I was asking it to carry. Chip based mono-blocks sounded better in my application (90 dB/w/m, steady 8 ohms, 30-20,000 Hz at reasonable levels in a 8ft x 13ft x 21ft room). That first generation class D (mono-blocks) were only slightly better. Temple Audio mono-blocks were a step up. But the M10 (Hypex/Ncore class D hybrid) is another step up in terms of control, resolution, and clarity.

The M10 is a new product and a bit beyond the OP budget, but offers streaming; full preamp functions (sans phono); DAC, ethernet, WiFi, USB drive, and HDMI inputs; Bluetooth input/output (headphone); 100 wpc/8 ohms or 160 wpc/4 ohms; Dirac room correction (huge benefit); all in a thoroughly modern/compact design with full front high quality touch screen as well as Android/iPhone/Windows/Mac control (no buttons/knobs). Importantly it also got me off of all the entanglements of computer audio while reducing my component/cable count down to the absolute minimum which helps expand the soundstage by removing clutter between the speakers.

ricmon · « **Reply #46 on:** 29 Oct 2019, 03:12 pm »

AMPZILLA 2000 SE!!!! Just ask the likes of Dick Osher, just to drop one reviewer who thinks very highly of these amps......plus tube smoothness!!!! Byfar the best for the money.

mresseguie · « **Reply #47 on:** 29 Oct 2019, 06:06 pm »

Guys,

Remember the OP stated a budget of $1000 to $2000.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #48 on:** 30 Oct 2019, 06:48 pm »

The Cherry Maraschino STM is $1200; the more powerful STM King is $1700.

And I'm quite certain if the OP being an SET devotee went in this direction, he'd be gobsmacked that anything so unpretentious could not only meet, but exceed his very high expectations.

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #49 on:** 30 Oct 2019, 07:15 pm »

Quote

The Cherry Maraschino STM is $1200; the more powerful STM King is $1700.

And I'm quite certain if the OP being an SET devotee went in this direction, he'd be gobsmacked that anything so unpretentious could not only meet, but exceed his very high expectations.

I'm a tube guy, through and through. But I've heard enough about these Cherry amps that I've got to hear them.

Shakey

SET Man · « **Reply #50 on:** 2 Nov 2019, 02:30 am »

Hey!

I'm not sure what the OP are trying to achieve here? Are you really unhappy with your systems right now? And why?

It will take a lot for me to switch to SS amp. I've been using tube just a bit over half of my life and with SET amps of which will be 20 years next month... and yes same pair of SET monoblocks. And yes, I've heard some nice SS amps but honestly I can't remember any of those that I would love to have in my system, even though some of them are pricier than my SET amps.

Anyway, I think the best thing for the OP is if possible go hear a few systems but this could be hard to do depending where the OP is and if there's any local audiophile crazy enough to let stranger in the listening room

By the way, if I ever change to SS amp, I will have change my screen here

Buddy

seikosha · « **Reply #51 on:** 2 Nov 2019, 05:40 pm »

I’m with you SET man. I’ve had dozens of SS amps in my system and none could do what a good tube amp could. If I had a dollar for every time over the years that I’ve heard about a SS amp that “..”sounded like tubes..” but really didn’t I could buy some nice new equipment. It’s fun to put a nice SS amp in the system and get intoxicated by the extra power for a few weeks, but invariably I realize that I don’t really like listening so loud, or need that extra impact. I end up missing the dimensionality and musicality and I go back to tubes and think “oh man, this is what it’s all about.”

That said, we all hear differently and value different things so I do get why some prefer SS. It’s all about what you value in your listening experience.

planet10 · « **Reply #52 on:** 2 Nov 2019, 06:05 pm »

If you guys are talking typical Class AB SS amps, i tend to agree. But i have been turned from tube amps by some of Nelson Passes amps. They do not sound like tubes (a good tube amp shouldn’t sound like “tubes”), but they do have a mix of assets that i find equally (or more) compelling. Particuallarily the SIT-3. It would be nice if someone started making more VFET/SIT SS devices so that we could have more amps like this one.

VFET/SITs are the only SS device that are essentially as linear as the triode and you can put together as simple a circuit.

Lack of VFET/SITs have thou started to spawn a number of amps (diy only so far to the best of my knowledge) where clever designers (like Nelson himself) are using a treansformmer to aid in linearizing the output of a MOSFET to make it look a lot more like a VFET/SIT/Triode.

Of course, any amp needs to be considered in conjunction with the speakers it is being used with. The amplifiers output impedance should be a good match for the speakers, too low an output impedance and the speaker sounds too “lean", too little and it sounds "boomy”. And that does not take into account what happens up higher.

So everyone’s opinion on amps, including mine, needs to be tempered by what speakers they are using (+ hearing acuiity and listening training).

A SET typically wants to see a speaker that is well damped mechanically and has a flattish impedance curves — i am amazed at how bad the impedance of many speakers that are recommended for SETs are).

Most typical speakers have impedance curves that really need a low output impedance amp, otherwise all those bumps in the impedance curve become bumps in the FR (sometimes one can get a happy result when impedance changes are balanced by FR changes (when measured using low output impedance amp) to give a flattish response. For instance Fosex FExx6 drivers in Back Loaded Horns.

dave

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #53 on:** 2 Nov 2019, 07:08 pm »

Why would anyone want a SS amp that sounds like tubes.

I’d rather have a SS amp that sounds better than tubes.

I’ve owned at least half a dozen different SET amps, and I know why people like them. But SET amps are not suitable for the vast majority of speakers. In fact SET suitable speakers are few and far between and most people wouldn’t buy these speakers if they didn’t have too. Furthermore SET amps come in all kinds of different flavours, meaning they all sound different. And based on my experience none of these flavours are as neutral, incisive and musically satisfying as my Class D mono amps which don’t require “special” easy to drive speakers.

It’s been more than two years since I moved on from tube amplification and I don’t miss the flavour of any particular tube at all.

planet10 · « **Reply #54 on:** 2 Nov 2019, 07:42 pm »

I hate it when people say "sound like tubes". Makes me think of the mushy, poorly executed tube amps from the past and current ones that emulate them.

A good tube amp should sound like music.

dave

witchdoctor · « **Reply #55 on:** 2 Nov 2019, 07:45 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 2 Nov 2019, 07:08 pm

Why would anyone want a SS amp that sounds like tubes.

I’d rather have a SS amp that sounds better than tubes.

I’ve owned at least half a dozen different SET amps, and I know why people like them. But SET amps are not suitable for the vast majority of speakers. In fact SET suitable speakers are few and far between and most people wouldn’t buy these speakers if they didn’t have too. Furthermore SET amps come in all kinds of different flavours, meaning they all sound different. And based on my experience none of these flavours are as neutral, incisive and musically satisfying as my Class D mono amps which don’t require “special” easy to drive speakers.

It’s been more than two years since I moved on from tube amplification and I don’t miss the flavour of any particular tube at all.

The Paradigm PW Amp I posted about is a class D amp with the added feature of ARC room correction and is 50% off on Paradigm's website. For those of you who don't use room correction ARC is one of the best implementations.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #56 on:** 3 Nov 2019, 12:35 am »

Unfortunatelly the SIT-3 amps were priced $4,000usd, there is various great tube amps cheaper than it.

planet10 · « **Reply #57 on:** 3 Nov 2019, 01:28 am »

But i expect few as good as it for cheaper.

And with the diy emulations you can build one fairly inexpensively.

This one for example: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/290776-50w-single-baf2015-schade-enabled.html

If you want a really good tube amp for less than $4k you are going to have to diy it too.

dave

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #58 on:** 3 Nov 2019, 02:15 am »

Some good audiophile integrated tube amps are around $1500 as Decware Rachel and Inspire, I dont need more quality that these, not to mention the Sino amps.

planet10 · « **Reply #59 on:** 3 Nov 2019, 02:21 am »

I wouldn’t touch a Decware.

dave