Upgrading from HD650?

toocool4 · « **Reply #60 on:** 27 Sep 2019, 01:42 pm »

Cool. I see Hifiman in the picture you posted, the HE1000 is worth a look too but just a bit more pricy than what you are looking at.

jawks · « **Reply #61 on:** 27 Sep 2019, 01:44 pm »

Yes, I thought I might try that HE1000 today, but I have to be careful ... it is quite a bit more than I would want to spend on headphones.

toocool4 · « **Reply #62 on:** 27 Sep 2019, 02:00 pm »

jawks because I don’t change things very often, what I tend to do is do my research as in listen to as many things as I can try. Once I have made up my mind, if what I want is a bit more than my first budget. I just go without and save more to get what I really like / want. So the way I see it with you is, you already have a good headphone in the HD650 so having to wait a bit longer will not be a hardship and the wait will be worth it. A lot of people do incremental upgrade, with the eye on the next thing. The money they spend on the incremental upgrade they will never get back, I say ignore the incremental. Wait till you can afford what you want / like. Makes more sense to me unless you like changing kit every 5 minutes.

jawks · « **Reply #63 on:** 27 Sep 2019, 02:03 pm »

Those are good words of wisdom. I would have to agree with you. I'm not in a rush to buy at this very moment and could postpone a purchase until I have sufficient funds if I found that one special model. At the same time, I think I would find it hard to justify to myself spending more than $2000 on a pair of headphones. Part of me would always be afraid to accidentally damage it.

jawks · « **Reply #64 on:** 27 Sep 2019, 02:15 pm »

The other difficulty is having so many great models from which to choose. There is no "perfect" headphone, as some do some things really well, and others do other things really well. I can understand how some folks in this hobby have multiple headphones in their collection! However, I prefer to stick to one or maybe a couple of models that I really really like and make the most use out of them. I hate watching equipment languish.

toocool4 · « **Reply #65 on:** 27 Sep 2019, 02:30 pm »

I think justifying a price all depends on how much headphone listening means to you? I only ever use headphones on the move and at work at my desk, I use headphones 5 days a week on my daily commute to and from work. So I can justify it. The rest of the time i listen to my home system and i listen to music every day, so all my money is in that.

If it’s not that important to you or you think you will not use it that much then don’t spend the money.

Yes what you say is true nothing is perfect, so pick the one that closely matches what you want and be done with.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #66 on:** 27 Sep 2019, 08:39 pm »

There is a real price/performance ratio at work here. Once one realizes that there are NO headphones that provide a flat response across the frequency spectrum, then it becomes a matter of which phones deviate the least from flat, have low distortion, and good channel balance.

Another question is how are they going to be used, and what setup do you plan to use with it. If noise isolation is an issue, then closed back phones are the preferred option. If the environment is quiet, then open back is the preferred option.

The other big question is source and amplification. If the phones are are going to be used for portable listening, then models with very low impedance are the ones to evaluate. Some portable players such as the KANN have a high power option, but that only goes so far. On the other hand, if the phones are only for home use with a dedicated headphone amp, that opens up other headphones to consider.

Good luck with your decision.

timind · « **Reply #67 on:** 28 Sep 2019, 12:38 pm »

Quote from: jawks on 27 Sep 2019, 02:03 pm

Those are good words of wisdom. I would have to agree with you. I'm not in a rush to buy at this very moment and could postpone a purchase until I have sufficient funds if I found that one special model. At the same time, I think I would find it hard to justify to myself spending more than $2000 on a pair of headphones. Part of me would always be afraid to accidentally damage it.

This is exactly how I feel about upgrading. I upgraded (to me) my HD 650s three or four years ago and threads like these make me curious about upgrading again. I'm sure there are better headphones out there so the upgrade bug is always pulling. Last night though, I spent some quality time listening to my Beyers and thought, man this sounds terrific.

While I'm still following this thread with interest, my upgrade bug is under control for the time being.

adydula · « **Reply #68 on:** 28 Sep 2019, 02:43 pm »

Upgrade urges are real!!!

I am always curious how other stuff works....and my TOTL Beyer T1's still sound and work great...

Adding a pair of Senn HD600's open my eyes to another great but different sound presentation..

Liking these both very much albiet so different, I was wondering how the big brothers HD800s might sound in comparison to the HD600's...

But the one thing that changed was going to a place and auditioning headphones....

...and now I have these Focal Clears a third and another great sound presentation...

Its a great time in audio and a great time to "upgrade" or just try something different!!

Alex

Tyson · « **Reply #69 on:** 28 Sep 2019, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: adydula on 28 Sep 2019, 02:43 pm

Upgrade urges are real!!!

I am always curious how other stuff works....and my TOTL Beyer T1's still sound and work great...

Adding a pair of Senn HD600's open my eyes to another great but different sound presentation..

Liking these both very much albiet so different, I was wondering how the big brothers HD800s might sound in comparison to the HD600's...

But the one thing that changed was going to a place and auditioning headphones....

...and now I have these Focal Clears a third and another great sound presentation...

Its a great time in audio and a great time to "upgrade" or just try something different!!

Alex

The nice thing about headphones is they are much easier than speakers to just have multiple pairs to meet different needs/moods. I have a friend that has JH Audio 13s for portable needs, the 650s for gaming and the Meze Empyreans for music. I guess I'm the same way too, but not as insane as him - I have the Beyer T1s for music/movies and the Alclair Curve or Etymotic 3XR for portable. Guess I need to take up gaming so I can justify another headphone purchase, lol!

jawks · « **Reply #70 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 01:09 am »

After another two hours of serious auditioning, I walked away from the shop with a pretty clear idea of what I wanted as an upgrade from my HD650. It was a tough choice, and my final decision was not the one I initially thought I would make.

I put in my order for the Sennheiser HD800s!

After my first audition during which I briefly listened to the Clear, Utopia, Ananda, Aeon Flow, and HD800s, mostly using my own FiiO M9 as the source and amplification, I was initially not impressed with the HD800s. However, I wasn't ready to write them off, because I had read that these cans need the right amplification to really do their magic. So for the second round, I used the shop's components to do the audition: a Woo CD transport coupled with the Simaudio Moon NEO 430HAD. I brought several CDs, including the following:

Diana Krall - All for You (Impulse)
Miles Davis - My Funny Valentine (Sony)
Jean-Guihen Queyras - Bach Cello Suites (Harmonia Mundi)
Dave McKenna in Madison (Arbor Records)
Hank Mobley - Soul Station (Audio Wave XRCD24)
Manfred Honeck/Pittsburgh SO - Beethoven Symphony 5 and 7 (Reference)
Andrew Litton/Bergen PO - Stravinsky Petrouchka and Rite of Spring (BIS)
Polyphony - Lauridsen: Nocturnes and other choral works (Hyperion)

I initially rotated between the Clear, Utopia, HD800s, Ananda, HE1000, and Aeon Flow, but as time went on, it came down to the Clear and the HD800s. I was expecting to favor the Clear, but as I did more A/B comparisons, I realized that there were certain sonic qualities that drew me more to the HD800s. In particular, I really liked the openness, transparency, and natural sound of the HD800s. On the track "Dirait-on" from "Lauridsen: Nocturnes and other choral works", for example, the voices of the choir were so beautifully and realistically rendered that I almost felt like the choir was right in front of me. One could also hear the air around each group of singers. Don't get me wrong - the Clear also did a fantastic job with reproducing the voices and layers of the singers, but the HD800s gave me a little more sonic bliss to my ears. Queyras' recording of Bach's Cello Suites is one of my absolute favorites of these works and, in my opinion, one of the best recorded (in a chapel). Both the Clear and the HD800s captured the rich and full tone of the cello and the ambience of the venue, but once again, I just felt that the HD800s had the edge in terms of transparency. With the orchestral recordings, I was very pleased with instrument separation and imaging with both the Clear and the HD800s. Woodwinds were reproduced by both cans with amazing clarity. The Clear sounded a bit more forward in terms of presentation, and, to my ears, the soundstage didn't have quite the same height as that of the HD800s. I was also very pleased with bass clarity and depth of the HD800s, particularly audible during tympani passages.

So, while I was 99.99% certain I was going to walk away from the shop with a pair of the Clears when I entered, I ended deciding on the HD800s. Too bad the shop didn't actually carry the Sennheiser product line; they just had a pair of HD800s for comparison with their other cans. Alex, it looks like we had the mirror opposite experience. You were dead set on the HD800s but ended up getting the Clear, right?

Thanks to all of you for all of your input and comments last week! I found them to be very insightful and helpful, and they certainly did help shape my philosophy when looking for an upgrade to my HD650's.

Out of curiosity, for those of you who own the HD800s, are there any particular amps or amp/DAC combos that you feel really bring out the best of these cans? I thought the Simaudio Moon 430HAD was pretty darn good (and it should, for its price), but I've heard that the HD800s also does well with the Headamp GS-X mk2 and the Schiit Ragnarok. Any thoughts?

brooklyn · « **Reply #71 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 05:14 am »

Jawks,

Congratulations on your headphone selection, the Senn HD 800s is a great choice. I have mine now
for about six weeks and as I go through my music library, I’m always amazed at the way songs are
presented especially instruments having there own space.

I’m using a Mac Mini into a Chord Qutest Dac USB input. The amp I’m using with the HD800s is the
Darkvoice 336se tube amp.. I think it sounds wonderful but I’m thinking of trying some better tubes
to see if they would make any difference or upgrading to a better tube amp.. but I haven’t made that
decision at this time.. I’m getting that itch again so something no doubt will happen before the year is up..
I feel the Senn’s might require a better amp to get to their full potential as you heard with your demo..

The biggest improvement I’ve made to my desktop system besides the headphones is the Chord Dac.
While I’ve had just a few dac’s over the years the Chord opened my ears. I started to hear things that
never seemed present before.. Instruments sounded more natural with greater decay. I could hear
deeper into the music.. Yep, no plans on upgrading the dac..

Happy Listening,
Jerry

toocool4 · « **Reply #72 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 07:16 am »

Hey jawks hope you enjoy your new order.

Like I said before there is no substitute for listening for yourself as only you know what you like.

By the way you did not say if you tried the Elear?

jawks · « **Reply #73 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 01:13 pm »

They didn't have the Elear available to sample, so unfortunately I wasn't able to audition it with the rest.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #74 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 01:26 pm »

Congrats on your choice, although I don't think you could have made a wrong one given your parameters. Here's to many years of happy listening.

jawks · « **Reply #75 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 01:29 pm »

Thank you very much! Appreciate the support of everyone in this Circle!

toocool4 · « **Reply #76 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 01:54 pm »

Quote from: jawks on 2 Oct 2019, 01:13 pm

They didn't have the Elear available to sample, so unfortunately I wasn't able to audition it with the rest.

To be honest it’s not in the same league as the ones you tried and ended up with.
I just wanted to see if you thought the same as me with regard to Elear Vs Clear & Utopia

jawks · « **Reply #77 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 01:55 pm »

Yes, I wish I could've done that, too. I've heard some reviewers say that the Elear comes pretty darn close to the Clear.

toocool4 · « **Reply #78 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 02:35 pm »

Quote from: jawks on 2 Oct 2019, 01:55 pm

I've heard some reviewers say that the Elear comes pretty darn close to the Clear.

It’s not. It’s as close as a VW Golf is to a Porsche 911

Freo-1 · « **Reply #79 on:** 2 Oct 2019, 02:54 pm »

Quote from: toocool4 on 2 Oct 2019, 02:35 pm

It’s not. It’s as close as a VW Golf is to a Porsche 911

That's a exaggeration. The HD800S is not doubt better, but it's not THAT much better. Audiophiles wind up paying a lot more for smaller improvements above a certain price point.

This is especially true with headphones, as NONE of them provide a flat frequency response. EQ with headphones can transform the unit from pedestrian to very good to excellent if done correctly.

Having said all that, congrats on your selection! I'm sure you will be happy with it.