This weeks episode is about line sources.

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Elizabeth

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #20 on: 30 Sep 2019, 07:57 pm »
Just to mention the Magnepan 20.7 and 30.7 both the bass and midrange panels are magnets BOTH sides... Plus the Mylar is tensioned rather tight... Compared to earlier 20s  (true earlier 20's the magnets only one side on midrange) :thumb:

Danny Richie

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #21 on: 30 Sep 2019, 08:06 pm »
Just to mention the Magnepan 20.7 and 30.7 both the bass and midrange panels are magnets BOTH sides... Plus the Mylar is tensioned rather tight... Compared to earlier 20s  (true earlier 20's the magnets only one side on midrange) :thumb:

Oh thanks Elizabeth.

emailtim

Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #22 on: 30 Sep 2019, 08:41 pm »
Danny, I hear you repeatedly saying no, so I will accept that you do not want to publish those plots.  Your speakers, your forum, your decision, your right of refusal.

As for your description of Maggies, one clarification, the larger Maggies have dual-sided push-pull magnet arrangements (e.g. like the 20.1's and 20.7's mentioned in this thread as well as their new 30.7's and possibly others).

I was aware of the characteristics of the Neos because I have been considering them for a while because of the Tympani mods.  I have looked at the BG, the Chinese Sounderlink AMT knockoffs that use the Kapton membranes and also read the threads on your yarn-damped NEO3s.


Danny Richie

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #23 on: 30 Sep 2019, 08:47 pm »
Danny, I hear you repeatedly saying no, so I will accept that you do not want to publish those plots.  Your speakers, your forum, your decision, your right of refusal.

It is not that I don't want to post them. I don't take them, because I can't get any data from a spectral decay of a room. It doesn't tell me anything about the speaker. And like I said before. I can just adjust the volume to make the spectral decay of the room look great or horrible. There is no standard for that.

emailtim

Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #24 on: 1 Oct 2019, 01:07 am »
It is not that I don't want to post them. I don't take them, because I can't get any data from a spectral decay of a room. It doesn't tell me anything about the speaker. And like I said before. I can just adjust the volume to make the spectral decay of the room look great or horrible. There is no standard for that.

Hi Danny, If you took frequency response measurements (like in REW), you already have the waterfall and spectogram information recorded.  Whether you look at them or not is another matter, but they are in your .mdat or equivalent files. 

As for volume levels, there are general volume levels @ 75dB-80dB or you simply state what volume the measurements were taken at so the reader can interpret accordingly.  How you plot the waterfall is where the games start to happen (e.g. only showing just a few dB off the top, excessive smoothing and not identifying the smoothing level, or truncating the bottom of the plot to hide when ringing starts).

Danny Richie

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #25 on: 1 Oct 2019, 04:01 am »
Hi Danny, If you took frequency response measurements (like in REW), you already have the waterfall and spectogram information recorded.  Whether you look at them or not is another matter, but they are in your .mdat or equivalent files. 

As for volume levels, there are general volume levels @ 75dB-80dB or you simply state what volume the measurements were taken at so the reader can interpret accordingly.  How you plot the waterfall is where the games start to happen (e.g. only showing just a few dB off the top, excessive smoothing and not identifying the smoothing level, or truncating the bottom of the plot to hide when ringing starts).

Again, that would not be an actual speaker measurement. That's a room measurement. And there is no reference for taking them. So they could literally look like anything. And it won't reflect what the speaker is doing or tell you anything about the speaker.

That would be like telling how fast my car is and then taking a picture of the road.

emailtim

Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #26 on: 1 Oct 2019, 04:47 am »
Again, that would not be an actual speaker measurement. That's a room measurement. And there is no reference for taking them. So they could literally look like anything. And it won't reflect what the speaker is doing or tell you anything about the speaker.

That would be like telling how fast my car is and then taking a picture of the road.

I would think it would tell a little more than what you are letting on.   :D


Elizabeth

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #27 on: 1 Oct 2019, 11:17 am »
I can understand Danny's point I really never thought if it his way, but with a moment's reflecton, yeah, he is right, it really is just the room interaction with the speaker. and one could make it do almost anything by putzing with the room. I could see if there was one special room, standard, right down to how the walls are made, how the floor is made , the ceiling.. the size, what is in it as an industry wide standard.
I think the lure of it is that there 'must be' some information that is useful, but Danny is saying in reality, not much can be used BECAUSE the room swamps everything meaningful.
That is my understanding of the problem.

Danny Richie

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #28 on: 1 Oct 2019, 01:14 pm »
I can understand Danny's point I really never thought if it his way, but with a moment's reflecton, yeah, he is right, it really is just the room interaction with the speaker. and one could make it do almost anything by putzing with the room. I could see if there was one special room, standard, right down to how the walls are made, how the floor is made , the ceiling.. the size, what is in it as an industry wide standard.
I think the lure of it is that there 'must be' some information that is useful, but Danny is saying in reality, not much can be used BECAUSE the room swamps everything meaningful.
That is my understanding of the problem.

You are 100% correct.

Danny Richie

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #29 on: 1 Oct 2019, 01:16 pm »
I would think it would tell a little more than what you are letting on.   :D



Honestly the measurements of the Super Mini show exactly what the drivers are capable of.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=164376.0

Hey is that your car?

HAL

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #30 on: 1 Oct 2019, 01:31 pm »
Danny,
Great episode!   Always good to see line sources discussed.  Still my favorite speaker style!   :D

Tyson

Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #31 on: 1 Oct 2019, 02:47 pm »
I can understand Danny's point I really never thought if it his way, but with a moment's reflecton, yeah, he is right, it really is just the room interaction with the speaker. and one could make it do almost anything by putzing with the room. I could see if there was one special room, standard, right down to how the walls are made, how the floor is made , the ceiling.. the size, what is in it as an industry wide standard.
I think the lure of it is that there 'must be' some information that is useful, but Danny is saying in reality, not much can be used BECAUSE the room swamps everything meaningful.
That is my understanding of the problem.

Luckily, there IS a room that meets all these requirements and is already an industry standard - it's called an anechoic chamber :D

Captainhemo

Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #32 on: 1 Oct 2019, 04:44 pm »
Luckily, there IS a room that meets all these requirements and is already an industry standard - it's called an anechoic chamber :D

 :thumb:
Taking  these measurements  in room,  no gating is great  for  dialing in speaker placement , room treatment etc  but they  aren't going to tell   anything about the speaker on it's own so looking at something person a post in room  is absolutely irrelevant  to  how  the same measurement would  look in   person b's room.

To me   it remeinds me of  watching you-tube videos of speakers through   another set of speakers and saying " wow, those  sound great"   Yeah,  you'tube vids of  speakers are  cool to watch,  I enjoy them to, but  just as above,   won't really  give you  any idea of  how  they'll sound

jay

nrenter

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Re: This weeks episode is about line sources.
« Reply #33 on: 1 Oct 2019, 07:17 pm »
:thumb:
Taking  these measurements  in room,  no gating is great  for  dialing in speaker placement , room treatment etc  but they  aren't going to tell   anything about the speaker on it's own so looking at something person a post in room  is absolutely irrelevant  to  how  the same measurement would  look in   person b's room.

To me   it remeinds me of  watching you-tube videos of speakers through   another set of speakers and saying " wow, those  sound great"   Yeah,  you'tube vids of  speakers are  cool to watch,  I enjoy them to, but  just as above,   won't really  give you  any idea of  how  they'll sound

jay

Actually, it's more akin to "auditioning" a singular piece of equipment at a dealer or show. One person is "hearing" the speakers. The next is "hearing" the amp. Another is "hearing" the power cables. No one is "hearing" the room (because you can't buy a room). In reality, unbeknownst to all, the amazing sound is because of a small bowl of crystals 3-rooms over.