I bet I can make your speakers sound better.

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Texbychoice

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #300 on: 13 Jul 2020, 03:37 am »
Discovered GR Research and videos from Danny early in the COVID-19 lock down. Great support of the DIY community.  Rekindled my interest in "audiophile" pursuits.  Thought my system was pretty good, although vintage.  Time on my hands so decided to try DIY improvements not expecting much.  Started by replacing all the electrolytic caps in my speaker crossovers with Dayton Audio caps.  Noticeable positive step.  Discovered the Humble Capacitor Shootout and read it several times.  A CDE 940C series 0.01 uF cap received high marks for bypass duty.  Added to the crossover tweeter circuit.  Woke up the high end. 

Since replacing electrolytic caps yielded positive results, moved to sub woofer amp and main amp.  Nichicon audio caps installed.  Sub woofer amp first yielded low end could feel in your gut without cranking up the volume.  Main amp next.  Smoother, bigger sound stage, and vocals cleaner.

Back to the speakers for air core inductors, Kiwame resistors, and CDE 940C caps paralleled to achieve specific values.  Used X-Sim crossover design software to adjust values of the original crossover design to get the smoothest calculated response.  After going slightly backwards with overuse of bypass capacitors, settled on original circuit with adjusted values.  Small bypass remained in the tweeter circuit.

Did the full  mod on one speaker for comparison purposes.  Definite and significant difference.  After some serious listening no doubt the other speaker had to be modified.  Wow, simply WOW.  With both crossovers modified finally listening to music, not speakers.  In some speaker reviews by Ron at New Record Day he described hearing layers and depth.  Now I understand what he was trying to describe.  Eyes closed the music envelops you. 

Throughout the process used specific tracks from various artists listening for specific qualities.  Don't have test equipment like Danny, but a musically trained ear knows pretty well what is right and sounds good.  No doubt Danny can make your speakers sound better.  Or if you want to follow the DIY route, could end up with rewarding results.

maty

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #301 on: 13 Jul 2020, 06:25 am »
I know a few have asked this over the years, but I figured I'd check to see if there's been any change - Danny, has anyone sent you KEF LS50s to play with?  They are pretty common and I would think having a mod would be mighty popular.

I recently bought a pair because I got a really good price, and they look cool.

Given the improvements that I had with my last GR mods to speakers, I'm just dying to mod the crossovers, line them with now NoRez, and pull out the rest of your amazing mods...

by Zvu

KEF LS50 playground - measurements of raw drivers in factory cabinets and simulations
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/337420-kef-ls50-playground-measurements-raw-drivers-factory-cabinets-simulations.html

Quote
EDIT: Couple of guys chimed in also so this is our take on KEF LS50 ALTERNATIVE CROSSOVER:
 

 Zvu PSM XO
 Göran
 XMechanik

maty

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #302 on: 13 Jul 2020, 06:39 am »
Discovered GR Research and videos from Danny early in the COVID-19 lock down. Great support of the DIY community. Rekindled my interest in "audiophile" pursuits...

I have posted [edited] your comment here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/356906-raal-70-20xr-ptt6-5-compact-tl-post6273825.html

blindman5

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #303 on: 21 Jul 2020, 05:23 am »
Hi Danny, I am wondering about a pair of Elac Debut V2 6.2 speakers. I haven't opened them up yet. They definitely do need some no-res I just got them, so they aren't broken in yet. There's a slight midrange shout that bothers me. It is like cupping your hands over your face and speaking. It's not real bad, but I hope that will smooth out a bit. Otherwise they seem to be ok. There's a slight boomyness that is really due to the vibrating cabinet. Hey, for $256 new, I'm not gonna complain. So just wondered if someone had sent you a pair to look at? Thanks. I had some issues attempting to log in, so I re-registered. See my hopefully approved intro message over at the Starting block.

The way you describe the method for making the crossovers sounds simple enough. I'd probably build it first, lay it out on a board with EVA doublestick foam. That way I wouldn't have to drill holes to keep the components in place. The 3mm foam I got seems to hold stuff really well. I think even as a blindman I can solder these parts together. One thing at a time though. Thank you for any help you can give here.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #304 on: 21 Jul 2020, 01:24 pm »
Hi Danny, I am wondering about a pair of Elac Debut V2 6.2 speakers. I haven't opened them up yet. They definitely do need some no-res I just got them, so they aren't broken in yet. There's a slight midrange shout that bothers me. It is like cupping your hands over your face and speaking. It's not real bad, but I hope that will smooth out a bit. Otherwise they seem to be ok. There's a slight boomyness that is really due to the vibrating cabinet. Hey, for $256 new, I'm not gonna complain. So just wondered if someone had sent you a pair to look at? Thanks. I had some issues attempting to log in, so I re-registered. See my hopefully approved intro message over at the Starting block.

The way you describe the method for making the crossovers sounds simple enough. I'd probably build it first, lay it out on a board with EVA doublestick foam. That way I wouldn't have to drill holes to keep the components in place. The 3mm foam I got seems to hold stuff really well. I think even as a blindman I can solder these parts together. One thing at a time though. Thank you for any help you can give here.

This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m_GJ8JQpCI

Syrah

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #305 on: 21 Jul 2020, 09:09 pm »
Thanks Maty re. LS50s.  That's all a bit beyond my technical abilities.

Is this the consensus on the mod schematic?

https://imgur.com/gallery/ZRjv52l

Does TT mean tweeter at the end?

blindman5

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #306 on: 22 Jul 2020, 07:18 am »
 :|Hi Danny, Well, reading about your mods, If I am correct, you worked on the 5.2's with a 5.5 woofer. I have the 6.2 with a 6.5 woofer. So then this needs to be looked at further. That cupped sound is probably the 750 HZ woofer resonance issue. I'm gonna figure they used the same tweeter, and the crossover might be similar. So, do I need to pull a woofer and send it to you as well as the crossover? Should I pull that wave guide off of these too? Thanks. I'll have to save up my pennies and nickels to get this mod done. $345 for a pair of $256 of speaker. hmm. I've noticed the vibration is mostly on the top and some on the sides, nut to much on the back. As for the tube connectors, I'd rather just remove the binding posts and put them in their place. There's just gotta be a better way of securing them on the cup, as opposed to drilling holes in brand new speakers. I'm not against the tube connectors mine you, just mechanically it's to bad it's not just copper tubes. If these were threaded, then I'd get some of these little cripping cylinders that you have on the valves to secure the valves to the pipe, say going up to your faucet in the bathroom or kitchen.  :)So what do you think? Should I maybe do the No-res first, Or would putting that in first would get in the way of the crossover. I did listen to the section on that topic, and I wasn't to sure in the best way to install that stuff. I couldn't tell if the bottom vibrates too. I figure since the port is right there at the bottom, probably safe not to put any no-res there.
« Last Edit: 23 Jul 2020, 01:14 am by blindman5 »

Kazoom

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #307 on: 22 Jul 2020, 10:49 pm »
Our level 2 upgrade package includes the level 1 upgrade plus we'll upgrade any or all of your internal crossover parts.

We can send you value for value the parts you need or build out new networks for you. Just send us information and pictures of your existing crossovers and we'll recommend the upgrade path for you.



Hi Danny,


Looking to upgrade my B&W 801 series 80 from 1980.  I spoke to you late last summer, but was not able to get into the speaker till now. They are in great condition cosmetically and the drivers look great, however I assume that 40 years has not treated the cross-over parts well cause these sound flat and muddy.  I also want to by-pass the "safety off" switch which loops into the bigger x-over board.

There are 3 separate boards, with one inside the woofer/tweeter section connected by a three pronged plug (looks almost like an XLR plug).

Really hoping to restore these to their former glory cause they really are a great speaker and are also the speakers that got me into the whole quest for the ever elusive perfect sounding system.  I am also very interested in how the famed 20hz woofer competes against my triple ob subs.   :o   Ok, not expecting much competition in this shoot out, however maybe I can get close.

Anyway I am seeing quite a few anecdotes on the interwebs about people having great success upgrading these, so looking forward to your recommendations! 

Thanks,

-Dan











 

maty

Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #308 on: 23 Jul 2020, 02:29 pm »
Thanks Maty re. LS50s.  That's all a bit beyond my technical abilities.

Is this the consensus on the mod schematic?

https://imgur.com/gallery/ZRjv52l

Does TT mean tweeter at the end?

This is the first mod, from Germany. I am more in favor of filters with fewer components and refine the frequency response later via software. Only mod the tweeter filter.

The best idea is to talk with Zvu.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #309 on: 23 Jul 2020, 02:49 pm »
:|Hi Danny, Well, reading about your mods, If I am correct, you worked on the 5.2's with a 5.5 woofer. I have the 6.2 with a 6.5 woofer. So then this needs to be looked at further. That cupped sound is probably the 750 HZ woofer resonance issue. I'm gonna figure they used the same tweeter, and the crossover might be similar. So, do I need to pull a woofer and send it to you as well as the crossover?

There is nothing I can do with just a woofer and crossover. To measure it I need the whole speaker.

Quote
Should I pull that wave guide off of these too?

Just the screen over the front of the tweeter.

Quote
As for the tube connectors, I'd rather just remove the binding posts and put them in their place. There's just gotta be a better way of securing them on the cup, as opposed to drilling holes in brand new speakers.

Sure, you can mount them in the binding post cups.

Quote
I'm not against the tube connectors mine you, just mechanically it's to bad it's not just copper tubes. If these were threaded, then I'd get some of these little cripping cylinders that you have on the valves to secure the valves to the pipe, say going up to your faucet in the bathroom or kitchen.  :)So what do you think?

Just drill out the binding post cup hole (from the old binding post) to 7/16" and they'll drop right in. You'll need a little supper glue on the rim and hot glue all over the back side.

Quote
Should I maybe do the No-res first, Or would putting that in first would get in the way of the crossover. I did listen to the section on that topic, and I wasn't to sure in the best way to install that stuff. I couldn't tell if the bottom vibrates too. I figure since the port is right there at the bottom, probably safe not to put any no-res there.

You can No Rez them first if you want.

Danny Richie

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #310 on: 23 Jul 2020, 02:52 pm »
Hi Danny,

Looking to upgrade my B&W 801 series 80 from 1980.  I spoke to you late last summer, but was not able to get into the speaker till now. They are in great condition cosmetically and the drivers look great, however I assume that 40 years has not treated the cross-over parts well cause these sound flat and muddy.  I also want to by-pass the "safety off" switch which loops into the bigger x-over board.

There are 3 separate boards, with one inside the woofer/tweeter section connected by a three pronged plug (looks almost like an XLR plug).

Really hoping to restore these to their former glory cause they really are a great speaker and are also the speakers that got me into the whole quest for the ever elusive perfect sounding system.  I am also very interested in how the famed 20hz woofer competes against my triple ob subs.   :o   Ok, not expecting much competition in this shoot out, however maybe I can get close.

Anyway I am seeing quite a few anecdotes on the interwebs about people having great success upgrading these, so looking forward to your recommendations! 

Thanks,

-Dan

Wow, there is a LOT of room for improvement there.

But ideally, it would be best to design a new crossover for them. That's easy for me, but I need one of them here for that.

And yes, I know these are heavy ones.

Kazoom

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #311 on: 23 Jul 2020, 06:52 pm »
Thanks for the quick reply Danny

Looks like it would cost the same to drive them down as it would be to ship them.

Although I could justify a family focused road trip to Houston  :scratch:  Hmmmmm.....  Going to have to noodle on how to manage this one.




adman666

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  • Posts: 1
Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #312 on: 27 Jul 2020, 07:12 am »
Hi Danny,

Been watching your various youtube videos and I am very keen to look into a set of DIY speakers. I have these older jensen qx-15 bookshelf speakers and was wondering if they are worth doing anything with? I am in Australia so I can't really send them to you. Any information would be much appreciated. They have poly-fill packing and the woofer has a metal frame.

Thank-you.

Here is the brochure:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0081/2967/5360/files/JENSEN_QX2_BROCHURE.pdf?8268

And some images:





blindman5

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #313 on: 28 Jul 2020, 11:37 pm »
 :Hi Danny,  Well, I was a bit surprised, pulling off that wave guide made a difference, although subtle. Some of that shoutyness is gone. There's just a little. I suspect better parts in the network would smooth things out. I have found in the past, changing even just the wiring made a difference. I once had a pair of Marage SM1. Changing out the wiring deepen the bass, and gave the speakers the better ability to hear attacks on drums. I'd never heard that before. Changing out from those awful spring connectors to binding posts helped. That was back in the early .80's. So much for this topic. I'll have to open up one, and see how much wire I'm gonna need. If I make the holes in the cup 6/16th, will the tube still fit? I want them to be a tight fit.

Ixnay

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Re: I bet I can make your speakers sound better.
« Reply #314 on: 8 Oct 2020, 03:11 am »
 This thread seems to be as close as I can come to the topic that I want to inquire about. In this case, I have built GR Research's Servo sub kit #2. It has been a sigh of relief since the completion, as I have not heard even decent bass from my system in many years. Now, I am using a rear loaded horn design by Decware Audio called the DNA2, but the installed drivers are from Mark Audio>> 12P. They are too small to do justice to low bass and in the horns go down neatly to to about 50 hz or even a little lower. Not bad, so then came the sub project. Now that it is all done, I have one question. In years past, I have used a Velodyne SMS-1 bass management unit to not only measure the room, but provide a corrected bass signal for a sub bass unit. It seems to me that this would be beneficial for the servo sub unit. Your thoughts on this are appreciated. FWIW, I am using a line level passive X-over made by Harrison Labs that would be in the picture if I were to use the Velodyne.