Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost

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AmpDesigner333

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Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« on: 3 Sep 2019, 04:22 pm »
A customer requested this comparison between the DAC DAC 1 HS (high spec version) and the Shiit Bifrost DAC.

Frequency Response
  DAC DAC: 0Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB (DC coupled)
  Bifrost: 20Hz-20KHz, +/-0.1dB

SNR
  DAC DAC: 124dB
  Bifrost: 114dB

THD+N
  DAC DAC: 0.0004%
  Bifrost: 0.003%

Maximum Sample Rate / Resolution
  DAC DAC: up to 24/192
  Bifrost: up to 24/192

Maximum Output (balanced)
  DAC DAC: 5Vrms *
  Bifrost: 4Vrms

Inputs
  DAC DAC: Coax SPDIF
  Bifrost: Coax SPDIF, Optical SPDIF, USB

Regarding features, the Cherry DAC DAC is a much simpler device, assuring no interference from internal processors or displays.  The Cherry DAC DAC has a coax SPDIF input.  For USB sources, we recommend the Cherry USB converter:
https://www.cherryamp.com/usb-to-spdif-converter

The DAC DAC also features jitter immunity, quadruple conditioned power supplies, * DC Coupled Double Differential Outputs, and the case is "stack-able" with Stereo Maraschino, the 60V 1kW Maraschino Power Supply, and Cherry USB.

Cherry DAC DAC web page (includes DAC DAC 2 HS/HSV):
https://www.cherryamp.com/dac-dac-d-to-a-convertor


lewdogg

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #1 on: 3 Sep 2019, 04:37 pm »
I'm the customer. Tommy is taking all of my money!!! LOL! ;o)


fredgarvin

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #3 on: 3 Sep 2019, 05:31 pm »
IMO deciding on a DAC based on SINAD measurements is a good way to be disappointed. I would suggest listening to each piece in your system. Schiit has a trial period, Cherry might as well. I would also suggest you try the Bifrost MB, not the cheaper delta sigma version. I would bet both the Schiit and Cherry will sound good so it's your sonic preferences that will make the choice.

R2R dacs don't usually measure as well as delta sigma dacs but very many people prefer them.

The Schiit MB dac sounds considerably better in my system than the better sinad measuring Topping DAC.

maty

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #4 on: 3 Sep 2019, 05:39 pm »
For me measurements are a necessary but not sufficient condition. They serve to meet the standards and verify that no mistakes have been made.

In audio there are many things that are not measurable, that is the problem.

- End off topic -

lewdogg

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #5 on: 3 Sep 2019, 06:35 pm »
IMO deciding on a DAC based on SINAD measurements is a good way to be disappointed. I would suggest listening to each piece in your system. Schiit has a trial period, Cherry might as well. I would also suggest you try the Bifrost MB, not the cheaper delta sigma version. I would bet both the Schiit and Cherry will sound good so it's your sonic preferences that will make the choice.

R2R dacs don't usually measure as well as delta sigma dacs but very many people prefer them.

The Schiit MB dac sounds considerably better in my system than the better sinad measuring Topping DAC.

Totally agree. I have the BF DS, BF MB and the Modi MB. I think they all sound good. I've since replaced the BF MB with a DAC DAC 1 HS and just purchased another 1 HS. Tommy's sale is really hurting my bank account.  :lol:

Wind Chaser

Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #6 on: 3 Sep 2019, 09:09 pm »
In audio there are many things that are not measurable, that is the problem.

Indeed, for me the ears are the final judge.

fredgarvin

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #7 on: 3 Sep 2019, 09:23 pm »
Totally agree. I have the BF DS, BF MB and the Modi MB. I think they all sound good. I've since replaced the BF MB with a DAC DAC 1 HS and just purchased another 1 HS. Tommy's sale is really hurting my bank account.  :lol:

Man, it's hard keeping myself from the same fate.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #8 on: 3 Sep 2019, 11:03 pm »
No disrespect to the Cherry DAC but if you want to use usb you have to spend another $390.  For that price you could jump up to the Schiit Gungnir.  However, I have not heard either DAC and would love to hear Cherry gear.

By the way, I was looking at your Maraschino STM amps.  Can you get it without a volume control  (I assume that the knob is for volume) and how much does a 400 wpc at 4 ohm amp cost?  My son is wanting to sell the Parasound A21 that I gave him and get a warmer, smoother yet detailed amp.

Thanks,

Larry

AmpDesigner333

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #9 on: 4 Sep 2019, 01:53 am »
No disrespect to the Cherry DAC but if you want to use usb you have to spend another $390.  For that price you could jump up to the Schiit Gungnir.  However, I have not heard either DAC and would love to hear Cherry gear.

By the way, I was looking at your Maraschino STM amps.  Can you get it without a volume control  (I assume that the knob is for volume) and how much does a 400 wpc at 4 ohm amp cost?  My son is wanting to sell the Parasound A21 that I gave him and get a warmer, smoother yet detailed amp.

Thanks,

Larry
Larry,

The Cherry USB is often sold at a discount when buying a DAC DAC.  Latest sale had Cherry USB at $240 with purchase of a DAC DAC.  Our Summer Sale just ended, but please email us at Support@DigitalAmp.com and we'll see what we can do for you.

Here's a comparison of Cherry Amps against some others:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161765.0

Beyond the specs is Cherry's sound, which is just like you're looking for as far as "smooth yet detailed".

List price is $1700 for a KING STM, the 400Wpc version, which now includes our 12VDC jack upgrade for powering the DAC DAC from the STM's power supply (so only one outlet needed for the entire system).

Here's the "Cherry Stack", with Cherry USB, Cherry DAC DAC, KING Stereo Maraschino, and Maraschino 60V 1kW power supply:


Best Regards,
Tommy O

morganc

Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #10 on: 4 Sep 2019, 05:56 am »
Indeed, for me the ears are the final judge.

Agreed and agreed. Basically our tools for measuring are inferior and based on limited science and limited knowledge.

maty

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #11 on: 4 Sep 2019, 07:50 am »
Just as the belief that great measurements necessarily imply a fantastic sound is wrong, the same happens with those who despise the measurements and rely only on the ear.

In the end it is the ear who decides but first the device must be well constructed and comply some requirements.

- End off topic -

Wind Chaser

Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #12 on: 4 Sep 2019, 05:13 pm »
In the end it is the ear who decides but first the device must be well constructed and comply some requirements.

Comply with what requirements? I don’t despise measurements but while I was yet a child at the tender age of 15, very focused on measurements, I thought I had acquired my dream amp, one of these...




At that time I didn’t know about Stereophile or any other reviewers apart from Julian Hirsch / Stereo Review who seemed to think all amplifiers sound the same. Anyhow unbeknown to me Gordon Holt in his review of the Crown DC300 wrote...

we would venture to say that this is the best power amplifier that is currently available, regardless of cost. We will even go so far as to guess that it will not be possible to build a better one...

Not long after I acquired the Crown DC300 I heard the Michaelson & Austin TVA-1...



Concerning measurements the DC300 was clearly the better amp on paper, but no matter what numbers and science would suggest, or what Julian Hirsch thought, or what Gordon Holt wrote :lol: the TVA-1 was unquestionably superior in terms of sound quality.

When I decided to try the Tommy’s Maraschino power amps it wasn’t because of their fabulous measurements, it was strictly on the basis of what other people wrote with respect to sound quality. And in that regard they did not disappoint.



AvsFan

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #13 on: 9 Sep 2019, 04:41 pm »
Totally agree. I have the BF DS, BF MB and the Modi MB. I think they all sound good. I've since replaced the BF MB with a DAC DAC 1 HS and just purchased another 1 HS. Tommy's sale is really hurting my bank account.  :lol:

Yeah, you can go broke buying things on sale.  :D
I'm in the same boat.

AmpDesigner333

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an aside....
« Reply #14 on: 9 Sep 2019, 07:35 pm »
Regarding measurements, any decent audio analyzer can tell the difference between 0.001% and 0.002% THD+N, but I've never met a human that can.

There's also the "threshold of audibility" for any given audio imperfection.  Some say that no human being can tell the difference between 44/16 and 96/24, but just crank up the volume during quiet passages and almost anyone can hear the difference in the noise floor.

We have measured amplifiers with amazing specs but "so so" sound, and I believe this is due to imperfections not covered by standard specifications, like control of a complex impedance with an arbitrary waveform (music).  Can that be measured?  Certainly, but understanding how the results translate to audibility is another issue.

So, at Digital Amp Co, we listen AND measure.  There's no substitute for either.  Without measurements, there's no real quality control for production, and no base guide for development.

lewdogg

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Re: Cherry DAC DAC 1 HS vs Shiit Bitfrost
« Reply #15 on: 10 Sep 2019, 04:50 pm »
Got the DAC DAC 1 HS yesterday and after hooking it up I immediately heard a difference between it and the Schiit BF multibit. Sound was cleaner (especially at higher volumes) and the bass was tighter. It's a keeper.

On another note, this is my second DAC DAC 1 HS. It's being used with a DAC Maraschino ST (King) amplifier. The other is used with a DAC 5-cherry. All of DAC's equipment sounds incredible. Thanks again for all your help, Tommy!