[Zitoun]

I have actually played around with some  cabinet models of something  simlar by altering our Super 7  cabinet... shorter,  full inner wing,   , tight  radius  swooped outer wing.    I'm not sure how the   NQ's  would repond to the swooped outer wing ( and as the swoop gets tighter,  it looks more awkward.  You're  also increasing the baffle width by almost  50% to match   the width of the  lower  section.
Increasing the baffle width by that much with those  6.5"   drivers ended my  efforts on this one, didn't make sense to me
jay

Thanks for the details, I was more thinking about having a Super 7 frame without the top drivers, like this:


just to be able to add the speaker's grill cloth and subs.
Then depending on preference budget or parts availibitlity beeing ale to add panels like this behind the grill cloths:





or this




or this



That way one frame can serve different purpose/budget. It solves also the space issue having NX otica + 2 subs in a smal/mid size room.
And the look will be living room friendly without having to spend a long time designing a nice MTM with fancy veeneer.
Does that make sense ?
Do you think you can extrapolate the cost for parts and flat packs + No Rez?

[Wind Chaser]

  Stunning!

Too bad the midrange drivers aren't available. Should have snapped the kit up when I had the chance.

[Shane]

Hi there,
My name is Shane, I'm new to this forum and I'm calling in from Australia.
I'm looking for a speaker that I can run with my DIY 300B amplifiers (01A/71A/300B, DC coupled with Monolith Magnetics OPT), 8W A1.

I'm coming from a pair of Duntech MTM's Vifa P13s and SEAS T25CF, sealed compartments within a sealed box, 5uF cross to phase inverted tweeter, P13's run parallel with small value of series resistance.  Uses Jensen PIO cap and mills resistors. Time aligned sound good, bought them new in 1996, run them with a sealed servo sub looking for something new.  Image attached. 

Front end is pretty good FIFO based DIY DAC based upon PCM fed TDA1541A with Pulsar Clock and passive IV to D3a voltage amplifier, 2:1 80% nickel core OPT and hybrid CCS fed 12B4/LM431 shunt regulator.  Attenuation via S&B TX-102 mk3 wired as AVC.

I've been listening to LM555 compression driver in front loaded horn (Azura), and the same again with Lowther PM2A.. and the question has always been 'what to do for LF'.  From what I read, the OB 12" servo system is probably as good or better than anything out there, its cost effective, and flexible.  I have heard Lowther Dx3 in OB and I'm not sure it gave up much to the FLH system, it did 'something' really right, and I'm leaning toward something from GR Research, they're obviously designed to work with the OB sub kits, I like the design philosophy, and from Dannys vids, I can see that he knows what he's doing.  I see that Jay has experience with Spatial offerings (another option), and uses the GR speakers as reference, so I'm happy to read between the lines on that one.  Other speakers I've considered are the Klipsch Cornwall 4's, and the 12" Tannoy from their Legacy Series.

Being from Oz, postage is expensive, and the AUD is down ~15% over the last 18 months.  Not prohibitive, but time to be pragmatic for sure.  And this leads to my question, the dual double 12" OB is a given, does the NX-Otica MTM give much up to the full NX-Otica?.  Seems to me there would be omission of a large series cap with the MTM kit, overall settling time would be slower, efficiency might not be quite up to what 8W is happy with.. and I could be wrong about all of this.  Looking for some suggestion on this, and perhaps some comment on subjective performance in, and around, and also WRT to the speakers I've mentioned above for comparison.  Being where I am, audition is most likely not an option: unless there is someone in Australia with a pair?.

Thanks and kind regards,
Shane

[Rocket_Ronny]

Too bad the midrange drivers aren't available. Should have snapped the kit up when I had the chance.

Yes you should have, I did. 

A person I spoke with who heard the Mini’s and Line Forces said he felt the Mini’s were almost 98% of the Lines most times. Yet the Mini’s imaged better generally.

Rocket Ronny

[Tyson]

Shane,
When I went to Danny's for a multiple-day visit a couple months ago, I brought my 300b.  Mine only does 6.5 watts!  Here's the full report:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167138.0

Net result, it was incredibly good.  And it also went VERY loud in a fairly large room.  Danny DOES roll off some of the very low bass before it even gets to the amp, using a small in-line cap so the amp's power is maximized.  But I was shocked - we pushed AC/DC and Queensryche to some pretty rockin levels and never ran out of steam.  I was surprised!

I also brought my Type 45 amp but 1.5 watts was definitely too little  

Counter-intuitively, I think those 4 midwoofers actually make the 300b sound more powerful.  Since they don't affect sensitivity at all and more importantly don't mess with the impedance, you get a more powerful sound than vs. the smaller speakers. 

[Captainhemo]

Hi there,
My name is Shane, I'm new to this forum and I'm calling in from Australia.
I'm looking for a speaker that I can run with my DIY 300B amplifiers (01A/71A/300B, DC coupled with Monolith Magnetics OPT), 8W A1.

I'm coming from a pair of Duntech MTM's Vifa P13s and SEAS T25CF, sealed compartments within a sealed box, 5uF cross to phase inverted tweeter, P13's run parallel with small value of series resistance.  Uses Jensen PIO cap and mills resistors. Time aligned sound good, bought them new in 1996, run them with a sealed servo sub looking for something new.  Image attached. 

Front end is pretty good FIFO based DIY DAC based upon PCM fed TDA1541A with Pulsar Clock and passive IV to D3a voltage amplifier, 2:1 80% nickel core OPT and hybrid CCS fed 12B4/LM431 shunt regulator.  Attenuation via S&B TX-102 mk3 wired as AVC.

I've been listening to LM555 compression driver in front loaded horn (Azura), and the same again with Lowther PM2A.. and the question has always been 'what to do for LF'.  From what I read, the OB 12" servo system is probably as good or better than anything out there, its cost effective, and flexible.  I have heard Lowther Dx3 in OB and I'm not sure it gave up much to the FLH system, it did 'something' really right, and I'm leaning toward something from GR Research, they're obviously designed to work with the OB sub kits, I like the design philosophy, and from Dannys vids, I can see that he knows what he's doing.  I see that Jay has experience with Spatial offerings (another option), and uses the GR speakers as reference, so I'm happy to read between the lines on that one.  Other speakers I've considered are the Klipsch Cornwall 4's, and the 12" Tannoy from their Legacy Series.

Being from Oz, postage is expensive, and the AUD is down ~15% over the last 18 months.  Not prohibitive, but time to be pragmatic for sure.  And this leads to my question, the dual double 12" OB is a given, does the NX-Otica MTM give much up to the full NX-Otica?.  Seems to me there would be omission of a large series cap with the MTM kit, overall settling time would be slower, efficiency might not be quite up to what 8W is happy with.. and I could be wrong about all of this.  Looking for some suggestion on this, and perhaps some comment on subjective performance in, and around, and also WRT to the speakers I've mentioned above for comparison.  Being where I am, audition is most likely not an option: unless there is someone in Australia with a pair?.

Thanks and kind regards,
Shane

Hey Shane,  welcome  to the Circle  !
See post  # on previous page  as well as post  25  here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168493.20

I've  also made similar posts  in  other threadds, just can't  recall which

jay

[Rocket_Ronny]

I can tell you adding the BG Neo 10s on the sides of the GR Super Vs, bypassing the PAudio driver, and heavily e.q.ed, you get electrostatic speed, coherency, and imaging. Absolutely stunning actually.

Rocket Ronny

[Captainhemo]

I can tell you adding the BG Neo 10s on the sides of the GR Super Vs, bypassing the PAudio driver, and heavily e.q.ed, you get electrostatic speed, coherency, and imaging. Absolutely stunning actually.

Rocket Ronny
[/uote]

You'd be surprised at how close the M165NQ's  of the NX series  come to keeping up with the Neo10's.  Not quite as quick but dammed close and  with a bit more body than the  Neo10's.    .

jay

[Shane]

Hey Shane,  welcome  to the Circle  !
See post  # on previous page  as well as post  25  here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168493.20

I've  also made similar posts  in  other threadds, just can't  recall which

jay

Thanks Jay for the welcome, I've since read them and thanks for that.

[Shane]

Shane,
When I went to Danny's for a multiple-day visit a couple months ago, I brought my 300b.  Mine only does 6.5 watts!  Here's the full report:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=167138.0

Net result, it was incredibly good.  And it also went VERY loud in a fairly large room.  Danny DOES roll off some of the very low bass before it even gets to the amp, using a small in-line cap so the amp's power is maximized.  But I was shocked - we pushed AC/DC and Queensryche to some pretty rockin levels and never ran out of steam.  I was surprised!

I also brought my Type 45 amp but 1.5 watts was definitely too little  

Counter-intuitively, I think those 4 midwoofers actually make the 300b sound more powerful.  Since they don't affect sensitivity at all and more importantly don't mess with the impedance, you get a more powerful sound than vs. the smaller speakers.

Thanks Tyson. 
It's encouraging to hear that 6W SE was up to the task, can I please ask if your amplifier uses negative feedback ?.

Type 45 makes a good driver tube for 300B.  I prefer 71A due to its lower input capacities and lower filament heating requirements and how that opens up for different biasing schemes (with less than the usual parts count).  From reading between the lines, and sometimes just directly, would you surmise (and this is open to anyone for comment), the MTM foregoes ~100uF series cap at the expense of having the mid drivers run the full of their range down to mechanical roll-off, maybe 100Hz?.  If the OB subs can run to 200Hz comfortably (even higher), why not simply BW limit the main amplifier (with a matching slope) to that 200Hz figure ( so the drivers are not subjected to <180Hz, and run the OB subs a bit higher?.  Now, if the reason is 'coz it doesnt sound better', I'd have to ask if you've tried it that way.  It would certainly help 6W 'go further' (regardless, and this is primarily to do with your output tubes plate impedance interface with the primary inductance of the output transformer, and reducing the BW of the transformer, your input tube wont care, and your driver tube may or may not care, depending on how it is loaded).  If you were going with a quick and dirty 6dB slope, (as suggested by your comment of RC input filter to the amp), in my situation that would equate to replacing ~100uF to the mid drivers with something more in line with 0.01uF (use what you like, its gonna be much much cheaper and much much higher quality) and I can run the grid leak of the input tube up to 1M to get the desired 6dB HP filter.

Additionally, less outright cost, less shipping cost, simpler construction, more flexible.  Guys, am I missing something here?.

Cheers,
Shane

[Danny Richie]

Hey Shane, thanks for joining us here.

Yes, we often recommend a small cap value in the input side of the amp to roll off the lower end.

And the mids on the NX-Otica MTM don't come with a high pass filter.

[Shane]

Thanks for the welcome Danny,

I was looking more to full NX-Otica vs the MTM Otica, if I understand, MTM forego's the series cap and mechanically roll off. 

Suggests better midrange performance from the MTM version, compared with the full NX-Otica, and limiting excursion of the mid drivers with RC (or how ever else) and bringing up the f of the LF system might mitigate any potential shortfall from the change?

As an aside, (completely unrelated) can you see any reason why the OB servo kit cant play up to match Voxativ or AER driver in a lecleach horn mech roll off at ~200Hz.

Thanks and regards,
Shane

[Danny Richie]

Thanks for the welcome Danny,

 

I was looking more to full NX-Otica vs the MTM Otica, if I understand, MTM forego's the series cap and mechanically roll off. 

Yes, they have no high pass filter. so you deal with the natural roll off.

Suggests better midrange performance from the MTM version, compared with the full NX-Otica, and limiting excursion of the mid drivers with RC (or how ever else) and bringing up the f of the LF system might mitigate any potential shortfall from the change?

I can't say that the mid-range performance is better, especially is using the Sonicaps as the high pass filter. But yes, that is the idea.

As an aside, (completely unrelated) can you see any reason why the OB servo kit cant play up to match Voxativ or AER driver in a lecleach horn mech roll off at ~200Hz.

You can do that.

A side note. I have measured and tested two of the AER drivers in a horn. They measured really rough and had many internal resonance issues that were as bad or worse than any that I have ever seen. The frames had a bad ring to them too. I found them to be unusable.

[Shane]

Thanks Danny,
I'm familiar with MKP caps signature, generally speaking, probably less of an issue below 1.5kHz.
Re: AER, they are 3-6k Eu (ea) drivers!. unsure as to what horns you were using with measurement but the lowther pm2a in Le Cleach front loaded horn is the best sound I've heard to date (been around the block twice), is there always a direct correlation between what you measure and what you hear?.
Since initial email I see AUD has lost >10% WRT USD..
Sincerely,
Shane

[Danny Richie]

is there always a direct correlation between what you measure and what you hear?.

Absolutely.

Resonances issues like those that I measured on the AER drivers were very significant and would be very easy to hear. And the stored energy seen in the spectral decay is very easy to hear.

[Shane]

Thanks Danny,
1 AUD buys 0.57 USD, which is down another 8% from my last message. I'm well hedged, (he says) yet relying on a similar pattern to what happened in 2008-10.
These communications have directed me toward the MTM plus dual OB H frame solution, but I'll park up here for now looking to get my 20% back.. should hopefully be more, uncertain times.
Thanks again and stay well (to all as well).
Kind regards, Shane.

[Shane]

Hey Danny,
Can I hit you up for postage cost for stereo MTM kit to Australia (SA, 5011 in my case).
Likewise 4 the 12" drivers and the plate amps.
See what happens.. cheers (literally right now), shane.

[WarmColors]

Anybody recommend a good stand for the MTM's?

[mlundy57]

Anybody recommend a good stand for the MTM's?

Yes, dual servo subs in H-frame cabinets. This gives you a full range OB speaker like the Super 7 but with the NX midrange drivers instead of Neo 10s.

[WarmColors]

Yes, dual servo subs in H-frame cabinets. This gives you a full range OB speaker like the Super 7 but with the NX midrange drivers instead of Neo 10s.

Besides the H frame subs, anything else? or would i need to build a custom stand?