New Copper Caps and pricing

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capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #40 on: 19 Jul 2019, 09:06 pm »
I'd only bypass with another cap made of copper, if I was going to do that.  IME there are sometimes tradeoffs with a bypass cap in a speaker circuit, so best thing is try it and see if you like it.  Here's my general take - if you have a tin foil or aluminum foil main cap (pretty much all film caps are either tin or aluminum), then bypassing with a higher quality small cap can get you improvements in speed, detail and even tone.  But, going with a higher quality main cap (like Danny's new caps or the Jupiters), you already have top-line speed, detail, and tone, plus you end up with slightly better coherence.  Well, that's based on some past caps, I've not actually tried it on the 10uf or 15uf Jupiters. 

I will say this, if I were to bypass, it'd be with another Jupiter or GR Research copper or Duelund cap at a .1uf value.  If someone "really" wanted to use a bypass cap with teflon, I'd rec using the V-Cap copper/teflon .1uf from VH Audio.  IME, teflon gives you more detail but less tone vs. the other copper caps.

Are the V-cap copper/Teflon caps actually Teflon? or perhaps PTFE or FEP? 

Jeff

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #41 on: 19 Jul 2019, 09:41 pm »
Hmm, Never heard of that.  I'd love to hear how that shakes out.....thin as in 6um or less

Well, I guess you heard it now :wink:  I'm not sure which company you are referring to, but more than one forms thin copper.  And, the Asian company claims they can supply 6um copper.

Are the V-cap copper/Teflon caps actually Teflon? or perhaps PTFE or FEP? 

I have no idea what they are doing over there these days.  I know chris vh gets silly when someone even speculates about his product in a way that he may deem as negative :roll:  However, given the sharp nature of slit copper, I doubt it is FEP even though they had crowning/crimping issues with their early single layer film parts.  <--This was/is not public knowledge.

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #42 on: 21 Jul 2019, 08:17 pm »
Well, I guess you heard it now :wink:  I'm not sure which company you are referring to, but more than one forms thin copper.  And, the Asian company claims they can supply 6um copper.

I have no idea what they are doing over there these days.  I know chris vh gets silly when someone even speculates about his product in a way that he may deem as negative :roll:  However, given the sharp nature of slit copper, I doubt it is FEP even though they had crowning/crimping issues with their early single layer film parts.  <--This was/is not public knowledge.

Interesting....the German company has had the market for years.  I recall back in the 90's the thinnest available was 10um.  What causes the sharp edge of the slit copper?  I would tend to think if its annealed dead soft there wouldn't be an issue. 

Jeff

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #43 on: 21 Jul 2019, 10:25 pm »
Slitting not only profiles the edge, it work hardens it.  As a materials guy, I would assume you would see the potential.  I do not consider myself a materials guy, but my manufacturing engineering education explains the science.  And, my experience confirms the result.

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #44 on: 22 Jul 2019, 08:45 pm »
Dead soft annealing greatly minimizes this issue.  Is it work harden edges or micro abrasion caused by slitting?

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #45 on: 22 Jul 2019, 09:02 pm »
Having access to an SEM would prove this theory....which I do 

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #46 on: 22 Jul 2019, 09:40 pm »
Slitting not only profiles the edge, it work hardens it.  As a materials guy, I would assume you would see the potential.  I do not consider myself a materials guy, but my manufacturing engineering education explains the science.  And, my experience confirms the result.

I don't doubt your education for a second.  Have you ever been in a converting plant?  One that manufactures film or foil?  What about a slitter or metalizer?  Ever design one or work on one?  why yes, yes I have....

Jeff

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #47 on: 23 Jul 2019, 02:07 am »
Dead soft annealing greatly minimizes this issue.

Annealing is generally done before slitting, and winding will work it some more.   At some point, I would think ultra thin copper foil (by say .250" or .375" wide) would have issues under winding tension if it were relieved too much.

Quote
Is it work harden edges or micro abrasion caused by slitting?

I speculated both in my reply to you yesterday.

Quote
Having access to an SEM would prove this theory....which I do

I do not see how.  Viewing the profile won't tell you what it will cut through during/after winding, or the hardness.  I do have access to one, but my pants are probably not as fancy as yours.

Quote
Have you ever been in a converting plant?

I assumed I'd go all my life without someone asking me that...  I HAVE! :o :lol:  A friend of my uncle took me on a tour through a PPT plant.  The plant was about 10 miles from my uncles home in Niles, IL.  My uncle was an engineer at Grumman.  His encouragement influenced my major 35 years ago.

BTW, what does that have to do with copper foil shorting thru 50ga FEP?  While we are nitpicking (well half of us anyway...), what did you mean by, "Are the V-cap copper/Teflon caps actually Teflon? or perhaps PTFE or FEP"  PTFE and FEP are Teflon.  What fluorinated copolymer are you referring to?

Quote
What about a slitter or metalizer?  Ever design one or work on one?  why yes, yes I have....

I have adjusted a slitter at RelCap.  Never designed one.  I'm not sure how that worked out for you though.  It seems these days you are hanging out trolling audio forums behind the guise of a moniker.  As proud as you are, I would think you would want everyone to know exactly who you are.  Assuming you are a manufacturer, or have been with one, you still do not have much experience with copper foil and FEP parts.  If you find vcaps so interesting, why don't you buy one, and cut it open?  You could take it back to your laboratory, and tell us all about it :popcorn:  I had the TFTF open 14 years ago when RTI was making them.

At first I thought...Chris...is that you?  Then after a little tude and considering 57', I thought...Dan...?  But now, I'm thinking Daryl...?  In any case this started out with you basically claiming that Eppstein foils was the only game in town...  Which it is not.  Then, you challenged my "assumption" on a product I said up front I knew nothing about.  But, in that, you revealed that you were not aware of a (real) issue with winding copper foil with delicate films that easily cold form.  You can drone on, but I'm out  :wink:

paul79

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #48 on: 23 Jul 2019, 02:53 am »
Man, Y'all can piss some long streams!   ;)

titaniumheads

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #49 on: 23 Jul 2019, 02:57 pm »
If I understand this correctly - for the S7 you would need a 10 & 15 for each speaker to replace the 2 Sonicaps?
What about the 56uf cap in the circuit?

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #50 on: 8 Aug 2019, 04:24 am »
Annealing is generally done before slitting, and winding will work it some more.   At some point, I would think ultra thin copper foil (by say .250" or .375" wide) would have issues under winding tension if it were relieved too much.

I speculated both in my reply to you yesterday.

I do not see how.  Viewing the profile won't tell you what it will cut through during/after winding, or the hardness.  I do have access to one, but my pants are probably not as fancy as yours.

I assumed I'd go all my life without someone asking me that...  I HAVE! :o :lol:  A friend of my uncle took me on a tour through a PPT plant.  The plant was about 10 miles from my uncles home in Niles, IL.  My uncle was an engineer at Grumman.  His encouragement influenced my major 35 years ago.

BTW, what does that have to do with copper foil shorting thru 50ga FEP?  While we are nitpicking (well half of us anyway...), what did you mean by, "Are the V-cap copper/Teflon caps actually Teflon? or perhaps PTFE or FEP"  PTFE and FEP are Teflon.  What fluorinated copolymer are you referring to?

I have adjusted a slitter at RelCap.  Never designed one.  I'm not sure how that worked out for you though.  It seems these days you are hanging out trolling audio forums behind the guise of a moniker.  As proud as you are, I would think you would want everyone to know exactly who you are.  Assuming you are a manufacturer, or have been with one, you still do not have much experience with copper foil and FEP parts.  If you find vcaps so interesting, why don't you buy one, and cut it open?  You could take it back to your laboratory, and tell us all about it :popcorn:  I had the TFTF open 14 years ago when RTI was making them.

At first I thought...Chris...is that you?  Then after a little tude and considering 57', I thought...Dan...?  But now, I'm thinking Daryl...?  In any case this started out with you basically claiming that Eppstein foils was the only game in town...  Which it is not.  Then, you challenged my "assumption" on a product I said up front I knew nothing about.  But, in that, you revealed that you were not aware of a (real) issue with winding copper foil with delicate films that easily cold form.  You can drone on, but I'm out  :wink:

Clearly I'm out classes by your knowledge. Chris, Dan, Daryl?
Thin copper dead soft not able to handle tension?  Hmm, what about 6.5mm tin lead?  Must be old equipment.  Winders can handle  0.50 um film at high speeds.

Copper/FEP or PTFE 15 years ago? Little late to the game huh?

If been fun, back to trolling mode

capman1957

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 13
Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #51 on: 8 Aug 2019, 04:46 am »
Annealing is generally done before slitting, and winding will work it some more.   At some point, I would think ultra thin copper foil (by say .250" or .375" wide) would have issues under winding tension if it were relieved too much.

I speculated both in my reply to you yesterday.

I do not see how.  Viewing the profile won't tell you what it will cut through during/after winding, or the hardness.  I do have access to one, but my pants are probably not as fancy as yours.

I assumed I'd go all my life without someone asking me that...  I HAVE! :o :lol:  A friend of my uncle took me on a tour through a PPT plant.  The plant was about 10 miles from my uncles home in Niles, IL.  My uncle was an engineer at Grumman.  His encouragement influenced my major 35 years ago.

BTW, what does that have to do with copper foil shorting thru 50ga FEP?  While we are nitpicking (well half of us anyway...), what did you mean by, "Are the V-cap copper/Teflon caps actually Teflon? or perhaps PTFE or FEP"  PTFE and FEP are Teflon.  What fluorinated copolymer are you referring to?

I have adjusted a slitter at RelCap.  Never designed one.  I'm not sure how that worked out for you though.  It seems these days you are hanging out trolling audio forums behind the guise of a moniker.  As proud as you are, I would think you would want everyone to know exactly who you are.  Assuming you are a manufacturer, or have been with one, you still do not have much experience with copper foil and FEP parts.  If you find vcaps so interesting, why don't you buy one, and cut it open?  You could take it back to your laboratory, and tell us all about it :popcorn:  I had the TFTF open 14 years ago when RTI was making them.

At first I thought...Chris...is that you?  Then after a little tude and considering 57', I thought...Dan...?  But now, I'm thinking Daryl...?  In any case this started out with you basically claiming that Eppstein foils was the only game in town...  Which it is not.  Then, you challenged my "assumption" on a product I said up front I knew nothing about.  But, in that, you revealed that you were not aware of a (real) issue with winding copper foil with delicate films that easily cold form.  You can drone on, but I'm out  :wink:
To prevent and additional mindless drivel or ego bashing, contact me directly.

Sincerely

Capman1957 (38 years in the industry...and counting)