New Copper Caps and pricing

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Tyson

Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #20 on: 19 Jul 2019, 05:03 am »
If I understand this correctly - for the S7 you would need a 10 & 15 for each speaker to replace the 2 Sonicaps?

Correct.

SoCalWJS

Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #21 on: 19 Jul 2019, 02:14 pm »
Correct.
Would you still use the Platinum bypass caps?

mikeeastman

Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #22 on: 19 Jul 2019, 03:16 pm »
When I up grade to the Jupiter caps on my X-over, Danny recommended still using the Platinum by pass caps.

Early B.

Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #23 on: 19 Jul 2019, 03:27 pm »
When I up grade to the Jupiter caps on my X-over, Danny recommended still using the Platinum by pass caps.

I'd be curious to know why one would use a presumably lower quality Sonicap bypass cap on a top-of-the-line Jupiter cap.

Tyson

Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #24 on: 19 Jul 2019, 04:03 pm »
When I up grade to the Jupiter caps on my X-over, Danny recommended still using the Platinum by pass caps.

I'd only bypass with another cap made of copper, if I was going to do that.  IME there are sometimes tradeoffs with a bypass cap in a speaker circuit, so best thing is try it and see if you like it.  Here's my general take - if you have a tin foil or aluminum foil main cap (pretty much all film caps are either tin or aluminum), then bypassing with a higher quality small cap can get you improvements in speed, detail and even tone.  But, going with a higher quality main cap (like Danny's new caps or the Jupiters), you already have top-line speed, detail, and tone, plus you end up with slightly better coherence.  Well, that's based on some past caps, I've not actually tried it on the 10uf or 15uf Jupiters. 

I will say this, if I were to bypass, it'd be with another Jupiter or GR Research copper or Duelund cap at a .1uf value.  If someone "really" wanted to use a bypass cap with teflon, I'd rec using the V-Cap copper/teflon .1uf from VH Audio.  IME, teflon gives you more detail but less tone vs. the other copper caps. 

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #25 on: 19 Jul 2019, 04:33 pm »
These look more like the Jupiter low voltage caps, but using even better quality copper than they use, is that correct?  If so, that's a HELL of a deal you have going on Danny.

There is only one manufacturer of thin copper foil in the world.....this is coming from a 35+ years in the industry

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #26 on: 19 Jul 2019, 04:45 pm »
Development of these actually started before the Miflex caps were brought into the US. These are US made caps.

These are also lower voltage caps and not as big physically as the Miflex caps.

Without disclosing proprietary details, what development was undertaken to make these different from Miflex or Jupiter? There is a very limited number of film/foil (raw materials) manufacturers, so my guess is the materials are basically the same.

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #27 on: 19 Jul 2019, 04:49 pm »
Yes. The company that is making these caps once also made the Jupiter caps. So they are quite good and very experienced at making caps of this type.

Sorry at the risk of sounding like a broken record, better quality copper foil?  From my understanding there is only one source.

Danny Richie

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #28 on: 19 Jul 2019, 05:55 pm »
There is only one manufacturer of thin copper foil in the world.....this is coming from a 35+ years in the industry

I think you may be right.

Danny Richie

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #29 on: 19 Jul 2019, 05:58 pm »
Without disclosing proprietary details, what development was undertaken to make these different from Miflex or Jupiter? There is a very limited number of film/foil (raw materials) manufacturers, so my guess is the materials are basically the same.

If you'd like a comparison then I'd say these were very much like the Jupiter caps but with a high purity Tinned Copper lead instead of a Silver Lead.

And while this type of capacitor is very expensive to make, the mark up to a retail price is less aggressive.

Danny Richie

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #30 on: 19 Jul 2019, 05:59 pm »
Sorry at the risk of sounding like a broken record, better quality copper foil?  From my understanding there is only one source.

I never mentioned anything about the foil itself being better or even making a comparison.

Danny Richie

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #31 on: 19 Jul 2019, 06:04 pm »
And I figured this thread would bring in some all new to Audio Circle posters. Welcome to AC Mr. capman1957. You must be very interested in this type of capacitor to join AC and post about it. Would you like to tell us about yourself or maybe why you were interested in the new Copper Caps enough to join and post?

Jeff

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #32 on: 19 Jul 2019, 06:21 pm »
Hey, I'm feeling neglected here :icon_lol:

BTW, there are a couple of sources for thin Copper foil today.  Even an Asian source, but I have not reviewed their product...

Danny Richie

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #33 on: 19 Jul 2019, 07:21 pm »
Congratulations!  What is the tolerance?  Lead material and gauge?  Did they use paper only, or paper and poly?

(Edit)Oops!  I did not see your other post regarding the lead material.  I could not tell that they were tinned leads in the pic.  I was just curious if you went with the 4/9s solid Silver like the Jupiters.  I'm still curious what gauge lead though.

Same Copper.

I did not see this post until just now. It was the last post on the first page and since it went to two pages I had been picking up from there.

The tolerances are suppose to be being held to within 2%. I'll see once they get here.

I posted more information on the opening post adding cap sizes and gauge thickness of the leads.

I think these are just a wax paper only design. I don't know too much detail about the innards. My only input was to use a high purity Copper lead on them rather than a Silver lead like what was used on the Jupiter caps.   

Jeff

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #34 on: 19 Jul 2019, 07:54 pm »
When I up grade to the Jupiter caps on my X-over, Danny recommended still using the Platinum by pass caps.

Likely because the warm rich presentation of the Jupiters can benefit from the micro detail/dynamics/speed/transparency that Platinums add to the right application.  Further, they add a subtle sweetness that paper caps do not have.

IME there are sometimes tradeoffs with a bypass cap in a speaker circuit, so best thing is try it and see if you like it. 

If someone "really" wanted to use a bypass cap with teflon, I'd rec using the V-Cap copper/teflon .1uf from VH Audio. 

IME, teflon gives you more detail but less tone vs. the other copper caps. 

Agreed

I've actually had a few customers over the years that upgraded to the CuTF Vcap from the TFTF Vcap, and did not like the result.  In their move back, they bought Platinums :green:

Agreed.


The tolerances are suppose to be being held to within 2%. I'll see once they get here.

That will be interesting to see.  One of the reasons they parted ways was because of the production loss just trying to hold 5%.

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #35 on: 19 Jul 2019, 08:22 pm »
And I figured this thread would bring in some all new to Audio Circle posters. Welcome to AC Mr. capman1957. You must be very interested in this type of capacitor to join AC and post about it. Would you like to tell us about yourself or maybe why you were interested in the new Copper Caps enough to join and post?

I've been in this industry for a long time, just not currently active.  I can't remember how/where I found the thread, but it sounds interesting.  I was a member of another High End Audio blog and found the comments regarding capacitors, how should I say this, Childish..... Such as "A particular capacitor construction has no effect on sound quality".

I'm a little bit of a material geek, so when I see comments about materials and construction I get interested.

Thanks for asking Danny

Danny Richie

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #36 on: 19 Jul 2019, 08:31 pm »
Quote
That will be interesting to see.  One of the reasons they parted ways was because of the production loss just trying to hold 5%.

Yeah, I am not holding my breath on that, but if I can make closely matched pairs from them then that will work.

Danny Richie

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #37 on: 19 Jul 2019, 08:35 pm »
I've been in this industry for a long time, just not currently active.  I can't remember how/where I found the thread, but it sounds interesting.  I was a member of another High End Audio blog and found the comments regarding capacitors, how should I say this, Childish..... Such as "A particular capacitor construction has no effect on sound quality".

I'm a little bit of a material geek, so when I see comments about materials and construction I get interested.

Thanks for asking Danny

I am also amazed at the people that will blinding claim that these things will have no effect on the sound. The snake oil drums have been beat to death by those people. Most of my customers are pretty high up the ladder when it comes to system quality. And they know good and well how much difference these things can make.

Feel free to join in here anytime. 

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #38 on: 19 Jul 2019, 08:55 pm »
Hey, I'm feeling neglected here :icon_lol:

BTW, there are a couple of sources for thin Copper foil today.  Even an Asian source, but I have not reviewed their product...

Hmm, Never heard of that.  I'd love to hear how that shakes out.....thin as in 6um or less

capman1957

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Re: New Copper Caps and pricing
« Reply #39 on: 19 Jul 2019, 09:03 pm »
Yeah, I am not holding my breath on that, but if I can make closely matched pairs from them then that will work.

+/- 2% is a tall order for such large parts.  I remember many years ago (20+) an engineer told me there are 4 variables that are difficult to control, two of which are controlled by the material manufacturers.   The other two variables are a virtue of the manufacturing equipment/operator.