This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters

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maty

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #20 on: 19 Jul 2019, 11:34 am »
@Danny, what do you think about the supertweeter at 18 kHz (with only a cap). With the bass-reflex coincident with it.

Big woofer + tweeter + supertweeter.

maty

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #21 on: 19 Jul 2019, 02:14 pm »
And Big woofer + midwoofer + tweeter

Old 3-ways from Yamaha. Yamaha NS-1000.




Yamaha NS-1000, crossover




Yamaha NS-1000, frequency




Yamaha NS-1000, impedance and phase




Closed box, without bass-reflex if I am not wrong.

maty

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #22 on: 19 Jul 2019, 02:51 pm »
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/yamaha/ns-1000m.shtml

Quote
Specifications

Type: 3 way, 3 driver loudspeaker system

Frequency Response: 40Hz to 20kHz

Power Handling: 100W

Crossover Frequency: 500, 6000Hz

Impedance: 8Ω

Sensitivity: 90dB

Bass: 1 x 300mm cone

Midrange: 1 x 88mm dome

Tweeter: 1 x 30mm dome

Enclosure: infinite baffle

Dimensions: 675 x 375 x 326mm

Weight: 31kg


http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Yamaha-NS1000.htm

Jeff

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #23 on: 23 Jul 2019, 11:03 pm »
More on the subject of comb filtering.

I guess I haven't hung around enough to see what everyone is doing :oops:  Very cool danny :thumb:

I recall the Tekton Enzo, with a three tweeter line array, measured pretty well by Stereophile. Even though it is a 2.5 way with ten inch woofers the mids looked decent.

They do not work like a line source.  A line source needs all the drive units to be center to center within the wave length of the lowest freq prominently produced .  And, they should be as  tall as the room to create a "line source" type wave front.  Of course, there are watered down versions of this that have some success.  Tekton (say the Impact) uses attenuation and outright phase rotation to blend the array.  Rather clever.

I think for the most part, danny is talking about speakers like these:

Danny Richie

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #24 on: 23 Jul 2019, 11:09 pm »

Jeff

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #25 on: 23 Jul 2019, 11:15 pm »
Bub, that takes me back! :green:

Danny Richie

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #26 on: 23 Jul 2019, 11:34 pm »
Bub, that takes me back! :green:

Aspects of that go way back. Only you could have made that pic.

Wind Chaser

Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #27 on: 23 Jul 2019, 11:37 pm »
I'd also love to hear actual scenarios of visiting someone's home and showing them how to maximize their system.

That would be so cool!  :D :D

maty

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #28 on: 10 Dec 2019, 08:58 am »
How to add a super tweeter, or how not to by Danny Richie
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161633.0

LspCAD simulation of my very strange 3-ways:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166472.msg1770575#msg1770575

Quote
To finish with the strange Big 3-ways, the SPL graph with and without super tweeter. Speakers simulated as 8.2 Ohms.





Without the super tweeter the sound is less airy. The simulation confirms it.

JLM

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #29 on: 10 Dec 2019, 12:57 pm »
How many here can actually hear a super tweeter?  (Most audiophiles are age 60+ and probably can no longer hear above 12,000 Hz.)

And how does one overcome comb effects at those frequencies?  (18,000 Hz sound waves are 0.75 inches long.)

Danny Richie

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #30 on: 10 Dec 2019, 05:10 pm »
How many here can actually hear a super tweeter?  (Most audiophiles are age 60+ and probably can no longer hear above 12,000 Hz.)

And how does one overcome comb effects at those frequencies?  (18,000 Hz sound waves are 0.75 inches long.)

The problem is that the way most people try to add it causes huge amounts of comb filtering well down into an audible range.

WireNut

Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #31 on: 10 Dec 2019, 10:56 pm »
Danny,
I watched your Fast Bass video last night. It was so informative and eye opening.
In that approx 20 min video you taught me everything I've been doing wrong over the last 40 years (building loudspeakers off and on) never getting the bass
as I wanted it to be, even with JBL 2245H 18" Drivers, 4-12 inch drivers, 3-box bi-amp systems, 4-box bi-amp systems, 8cf ported bass cabs, 4cf cubic ported
bass cabs, Electronic xovers, Mono bass, stereo bass, and now i've been working on two 4.5cf Push-Pull bass cabs off and on for the last coulpe years questioning
my designs if its worth continuing or not.

Where the hell have your video's been since I was 12, now 62?
You could have saved me a lot of time money and disapointment over the decades.
I've lost so many years doing it wrong.

I'm not complaining because I still love doing it after 40 years and will be building as long as I'm able.

Awesome work Danny, just awesome. Please continue.
Steve
 

WireNut

Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #32 on: 10 Dec 2019, 11:13 pm »
Danny, Rant #2. Kidding.

Now I dream of about eight - 7" drivers per side, crossed over at about 200Hz with maybe 6db gain around 25Hz with 2-ways or 2.5 ways on top or on the sides
bi-amp and active x-over. See what you've done to me. I LOVE IT...............



WireNut

Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #33 on: 10 Dec 2019, 11:31 pm »
No wait. Make that eight-7" drives per side and 4-ribbons per side. I've never heard ribbons before.
I think maybe finally I'm on to sometime.

You need to write a book and get it published.

Oh yeah. Can I borrow some cash.
 :thumb:



Early B.

Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #34 on: 10 Dec 2019, 11:57 pm »
Now I dream of about eight - 7" drivers per side, crossed over at about 200Hz with maybe 6db gain around 25Hz with 2-ways or 2.5 ways on top or on the sides
bi-amp and active x-over. See what you've done to me. I LOVE IT...............

Active crossover? Oh, hell naw!! Danny will take you to school for that one. :o


HAL

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #35 on: 11 Dec 2019, 01:07 am »
Sorry, but latest generation DSP crossovers can really compete in speaker designs.  The past is gone. 

Jmitchell3

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #36 on: 11 Dec 2019, 01:25 am »
Sorry, but latest generation DSP crossovers can really compete in speaker designs.  The past is gone.

I don’t understand how anything on the digital side matters. I can see once the signal is analogue it can degrade but by definition a digital signal is on or off, there is no noise...

HAL

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #37 on: 11 Dec 2019, 01:38 am »
Because you have to have excellent D/A converters to keep the digital processing sounding good.  Not many DSP processors out there do that correctly.

WireNut

Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #38 on: 11 Dec 2019, 09:41 pm »
Active crossover? Oh, hell naw!! Danny will take you to school for that one. :o

I'm up for that  :thumb:.


HAL

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Re: This Tuesdays Tech Talk is about speakers with two tweeters
« Reply #39 on: 12 Dec 2019, 01:50 am »
Active crossover? Oh, hell naw!! Danny will take you to school for that one. :o
Danny actually mentioned the DSP crossover I use in one Tech Talk.  I demoed it for him on the line force speakers with fine results.  It has gotten even better since that demo.

« Last Edit: 12 Dec 2019, 04:01 am by HAL »