M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction

Stargate · « **Reply #80 on:** 31 Aug 2019, 09:14 pm »

Quote from: Spatial Audio on 30 Aug 2019, 01:53 am

The simple answer: if you can swing the M3's $4200 price - I would go that route. You will definitely be covered on bass and not require a sub.

Clayton

Change of plans.. for my 13x13 room, I moved my friends M3 Master into my house to see how a 32 Hz open baffle speaker would fare. Low and behold, the bass was MORE than enough!

. I guess 32 Hz - 40Hz box speakers I’m used to hearing don’t produce as low, accurate, authoritative, punchy bass as I thought they would (when compared to the M3 Master). We both agreed that no sub was required! Based on my earlier comment, I could see why you would want me to play it safe, but now that I’ve compared the two, we can put that worry to rest(?) The M3 Sapphire won’t be necessary. I’m not even sure I’d hear the difference because of how low the bass already is at my volume levels, so it might be overkill. But I will say - I’m drawn to the elegance and simplicity of the M5.

Great speakers, great price, great design!

SnowPuppy77 · « **Reply #81 on:** 31 Aug 2019, 09:41 pm »

Quote from: Stargate on 31 Aug 2019, 09:14 pm

Change of plans.. for my 13x13 room, I moved my friends M3 Master into my house to see how a 32 Hz open baffle speaker would fare. Low and behold, the bass was MORE than enough! . I guess 32 Hz - 40Hz box speakers I’m used to hearing don’t produce as low, accurate, authoritative, punchy bass as I thought they would (when compared to the M3 Master). We both agreed that no sub was required! Based on my earlier comment, I could see why you would want me to play it safe, but now that I’ve compared the two, we can put that worry to rest. The M3 Sapphire won’t be necessary. I’m not even sure I’d hear the difference because of how low the bass already is at my volume levels, so it would be overkill. But I will say - I’m drawn to the elegance and simplicity of the M5.

Great speakers, great price, great design!

For that size room I think I would probably be fine with the M5. That said the M3 would still work in that room IMO and will still deliver more bass authority. And if you ever move them to a large room the M3 will still be well suited. But if they will stay in that room size then I bet the M5 would still be great. You can put that extra money to other upgrades or buy a bunch of nice LPs.

Stargate · « **Reply #82 on:** 31 Aug 2019, 11:57 pm »

Quote from: SnowPuppy77 on 31 Aug 2019, 09:41 pm

For that size room I think I would probably be fine with the M5. That said the M3 would still work in that room IMO and will still deliver more bass authority. And if you ever move them to a large room the M3 will still be well suited. But if they will stay in that room size then I bet the M5 would still be great. You can put that extra money to other upgrades or buy a bunch of nice LPs.

With much respect to Clayton’s open baffle design, I don’t believe 30Hz(?) (M3 Sapphire) versus 32Hz (M3 Turbo/Master) is going to be a noticeable difference at normal listening levels in a 13x13 room unless the volume was cranked, but even then it would be far too overwhelming for my ears to even tell the difference, whereas if you had them in a MUCH larger space you could probably squeeze that extra 1-2Hz (depending on the way your room is set-up). Sure, the M3 Sapphire will work in a 13x13 room, but after hearing the M3 Master, anything more is probably overkill.

All in all, you can’t wrong with either, but why spend $1,200 on something you can’t get any use out of in a smaller room? Maybe I'm wrong.

I want to see those pictures when you guys get them! I’ll be shortly behind!

Don_S · « **Reply #83 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 12:10 am »

I would be more concerned about the tonal balance especially in a smaller room.

Stargate · « **Reply #84 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 01:13 am »

Oops, I just noticed that the M5 Sapphire is rated at 29Hz, not 32Hz

. That will definitely be plenty! Does anyone know what the M3 Sapphire is rated at?

Don_S · « **Reply #85 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 04:29 pm »

Revised M5 specifications from the Spatial website:

M5 Specifications:
Type: 2-way dynamic dipolar
Drivers: 1 x Spatial M100 Uniwave® - Direct Drive Transducer
1 x Spatial ST15 - 15 inch cast frame dipole woofer
Frequency Range: 32Hz-40kHz (typical in-room bandwidth)
Impedance: 8 Ohms nominal
Sensitivity: 92 dB

SnowPuppy77 · « **Reply #86 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 04:55 pm »

Quote from: Stargate on 1 Sep 2019, 01:13 am

Oops, I just noticed that the M5 Sapphire is rated at 29Hz, not 32Hz . That will definitely be plenty! Does anyone know what the M3 Sapphire is rated at?

Keep in mind that extension does not convey the whole picture when it comes to bass authority and scale. The rule of there is no replacement for displacement applies to above 32Hz bass as well.

Tyson · « **Reply #87 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 07:10 pm »

Yep, a 12 inch woofer and a 15 inch woofer might both reach 30hz, but the 15 inch will do it with more authority, other things being equal.

Stargate · « **Reply #88 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 07:52 pm »

Quote from: Tyson on 1 Sep 2019, 07:10 pm

Yep, a 12 inch woofer and a 15 inch woofer might both reach 30hz, but the 15 inch will do it with more authority, other things being equal.

I respectfully disagree.

Usually, when you have larger woofers, you tend to have more distortion (not in all cases). For example, my modern speakers with 7" woofers can dig deeper than my vintage JBL 4345 with 18" woofer. Mind you, the JBL 4345 is supposed to dig deeper, but sounds worse!

Stargate · « **Reply #89 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 10:06 pm »

Quote from: SnowPuppy77 on 1 Sep 2019, 04:55 pm

Keep in mind that extension does not convey the whole picture when it comes to bass authority and scale. The rule of there is no replacement for displacement applies to above 32Hz bass as well.

Maybe I should buy both and then decide which sounds the best?

Don_S · « **Reply #90 on:** 1 Sep 2019, 10:53 pm »

Quote from: Stargate on 1 Sep 2019, 10:06 pm

Maybe I should buy both and then decide which sounds the best?

Then, in at least 500 words, compare and contrast.

Spatial Audio · « **Reply #91 on:** 5 Sep 2019, 03:24 pm »

Hey guys,

We are skipping RMAF this time. Thought I better mention that since a lot of people have asked. Will wait and see how things go in the new hotel.

Next show for us will be Capitol Audiofest Nov 1, then Florida, Munich and Axpona in the spring.

Clayton
www.spatialaudio.us

Tyson · « **Reply #92 on:** 5 Sep 2019, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: Stargate on 1 Sep 2019, 07:52 pm

I respectfully disagree.

Usually, when you have larger woofers, you tend to have more distortion (not in all cases). For example, my modern speakers with 7" woofers can dig deeper than my vintage JBL 4345 with 18" woofer. Mind you, the JBL 4345 is supposed to dig deeper, but sounds worse!

You have to compare apples to apples. A 12 inch woofer and a 15 inch woofer, both from the same company, both designed as bass drivers (as opposed to "midbass" drivers), both designed to go down to 30hz. I can promise you that the 15 inch woofer will be able to hit 30hz with less distortion. It's a simple question of swept volume. The larger woofer moves more air, so therefore can hit the lower ranges with less cone movement, which is what you want in a bass driver. All other things being equal, of course (apples and all that).

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #93 on:** 5 Sep 2019, 05:41 pm »

After having owned a few speakers with 15" bass drivers, it's hard to go back to multiple 6/8/10 inch drivers.

Danny's OB 12" subs get a pass.........

Shakey

SnowPuppy77 · « **Reply #94 on:** 6 Sep 2019, 12:31 am »

Quote from: Tyson on 5 Sep 2019, 05:24 pm

You have to compare apples to apples. A 12 inch woofer and a 15 inch woofer, both from the same company, both designed as bass drivers (as opposed to "midbass" drivers), both designed to go down to 30hz. I can promise you that the 15 inch woofer will be able to hit 30hz with less distortion. It's a simple question of swept volume. The larger woofer moves more air, so therefore can hit the lower ranges with less cone movement, which is what you want in a bass driver. All other things being equal, of course (apples and all that).

Very well put. At RMAF a couple years ago I had a paradigm altering experience listening to a pair of flagship Tannoys with a 15 inch woofer. Tight detailed bass that was amazing.

ttan98 · « **Reply #95 on:** 6 Sep 2019, 02:31 am »

Quote from: Shakeydeal on 5 Sep 2019, 05:41 pm

After having owned a few speakers with 15" bass drivers, it's hard to go back to multiple 6/8/10 inch drivers.

Danny's OB 12" subs get a pass.........

I thought Danny's servo subwoofers with matching ampl. are very good, that is why Spatial is using them in their top of the range speakers.

Shakey

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #96 on:** 6 Sep 2019, 07:28 am »

They are very good, that is what I meant.

Tyson · « **Reply #97 on:** 6 Sep 2019, 02:42 pm »

Re: the Rythmik OB subs - dual 12" subs will sweep more air than a single 15, especially those drivers, they are very long throw which lets them move even more air. Add the servo control on top of that and it's not even a fair fight at that point

Shakeydeal · « **Reply #98 on:** 6 Sep 2019, 02:57 pm »

I've got to say that even though they can't move as much air as dual 12" servo subs, the horn loaded bass bins of khorns do a very good job of loading a room. And they also have very good definition and correct pitch.

Shakey

SnowPuppy77 · « **Reply #99 on:** 12 Sep 2019, 06:08 pm »

I see that the M3 Sapphire specs are now posted on the Spatial Website. Was a bit surprised to see that the M3 are 4 ohms while the M5 are 8 ohms. Should still work as well if not better with my amp.

Clayton, What is the min impedance dip on the M3 Sapphire? Wonder if they are a challenge for amps that are not well suited for 2 ohms.