M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction

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Don_S

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #260 on: 1 Dec 2019, 05:59 pm »
Paul,

Thank you for the detailed analysis. As an option to a complete bi-wiring what do you think of running a different mid/tweeter wire from the Sapphire binding posts to the mid/tweeter input? A compromise to your suggestion but less expensive to experiment with for those who do not get their cables at the super-deep manufacturer's discount.  Wink2 That might be a good option for someone who already has cables they like.


SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #261 on: 1 Dec 2019, 08:12 pm »
Audiosaurusrex / René,

Thinking that others may benefit from your email questions to me, I decided to answer them here, especially since you mentioned it here yesterday.

M3 / M5 Turbo S and Triode Master speakers:

With Spatial's Turbo S and Triode Master speakers, Clayton and I have always run AntiCables Level 3.1 Speaker Wires at every audio show we have done. We are very good at being able to put together a demo room that sounds better than the majority, while being one of the least expensive at the show. A tough act to pull off. With this goal in mind, we don't even consider dropping AntiCables Level 5 or Level 6 Speaker Wires into the system.  But...

When running the M3 Triode Master speakers in my home, I am free to use whatever speaker wires I want, so for quite a while I ran Level 6, just because I could. About a month ago, I decided to experiment with speaker wires, because I was getting the feeling there was not good synergy between the Level 6 and the M3TM. I tried a pair of my AntiCables Level 3.1 Speaker Wires, and liked them better. Cool!

I think the Level 6 Speaker Wires being more resolving didn't work well with the Triode Master's high frequencies signature. I am not pointing fingers at the Triode Master speakers, as all high frequency drivers have a signature (a sound of their own that is not part of the music). The great thing discovered is that the Turbo S and M3 Triode Master speakers actually sound better with the less expensive Level 3.1 Speaker Wires. The politeness of very low dislocation density pure copper wire has good synergy with the older M3 models.


Sapphire Speakers:

At Capital AudioFest 2019 a few weeks ago, Clayton and I again used Level 3.1 Speaker Wires to achieve our goal of great sound for little cost. For anyone buying the new M3 or M5 Sapphire speakers, AntiCables Level 3.1 Speaker Wires are highly recommended.  After all, the Level 3.1 / Sapphire combination (along with LTA, LampizatOr, and Innuos electronics), got recognized as a top sounding room by both Stereophile and AVShowrooms.

Even though the Sapphire speakers do not have bi-wire terminals, they can be bi-wires because of these two facts:

1) The Sapphire tweeter is electrically connected directly to the amplifier output (no internal x-over network)

2) The Sapphire tweeter has 4mm Banana Sockets on the back (as you can see in this photo from "SnowPuppy77")





Because of this, factory leads can be unplugged and an alternate pair of speaker wires can be directly connected. Beautiful!

From what I heard at CAF, the Sapphire tweeter is higher resolving, has less sonic signatures, and is more extended than earlier M3 models. Because of this, I am expecting the Sapphire HF driver will benefit from the higher resolving Level 5 ACElectrum™ Silver/Gold alloy metallurgy.

When I get my pair of M3 Sapphire speakers, I'm going to simply start with a pair of Level 3.1 Speaker Wires so they are the same as at CAF.

After they are well broken-in, and I am very familiar with the sound, I'll unplug the factory wires out of the tweeter and run Level 5 directly to them, from the amplifier, for highest resolution. The back of the tweeters have Banana plugs, so it is super easy to do this. One just has to be sure that the two unused factory banana plugs don't touch anything (insulated with electrical tape or shrink tubing).

To answer you question about what terminations to order to do this bi-wire configuration, I recommend:

- Level 3.1 Speaker Wires with our optional Bananas on both ends (connect to factory speaker terminals)

- Level 5 Speaker Wires with Spades on the Amplifier ends, and optional Bananas on the Speaker Ends (connect to sapphire tweeter)

Both can be seen here: http://anticables.com/speaker-wires/2-channel

Having one set of speaker wire with spades and the other with bananas, makes it easy to connect both to the same amplifier output terminals.

Hope that helps.

Please ask any questions anyone has about cabling the Spatial speakers, and I'll do my best to answer them as best I can.

Thanks!
Paul Speltz(AntiCables)

Really enjoyed this post Paul.  Very curious to hear how you come to your preferred cabling for the M3S.  Hoping to do some things with cables this summer.

Regarding tone.  With the M3TM I really enjoyed Telarc Digital orchestra music from the 80's and even 90's.  To me the brass for the first time sounded enjoyable on the M3TM.  With the M3S I do still enjoy though I remember enjoying specifically the brass section better on the M3TM.  However when I switch over the the best recordings I have like Missing Link 2 Direct to Disc LP and Les Brown and the Band of Renown Direct to Disc LP the brass sounds much better on the M3S than the M3TM.  The Less Brown LP is mostly brass and it is explosively dynamic and illuminated yet very smooth and fatigue free even at high volumes.  The M3TM did not have the detail, stage, lively presence, and natural tone on the Less Brown Direct to Disc LP as the M3S does.  Same with the sax on the Analog Productions Brubeck Timeout LP.  I am coming to the conclusion that the older Telarcs have some inherent flaws of early digital that the M3S exposes and the M3TM forgives.

Another case in point.  My Dad and I listened to a CD of a newly mastered Living Stereo recording of Mussorgsky Pictures at an Exhibition (Fritz Reiner Chicago Symphony Orchestra recorded 1957).  The room had all the lights out except a candle.  We were blown away at how excellent it sounded.  The brass had bite, presence, and explosiveness and we listened to all 33 min at moderately loud volume with no fatigue.  For fun we decided to compare it to a 1979 Telarc Digital version with the Cleveland Orchestra.  While the Telarc version sounded clear it was like monochrome compared to the technicolor of the Living Stereo. 

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #262 on: 7 Dec 2019, 01:33 am »




Hello to all. Had the M3 turbo s and upgraded to the M5s. Speakers are about 9 feet apart and sitting 9 feet away. Toe in for now is roughly 30°.  Just hooked them up Wednesday so they need quite a bit of break in. If the initial performance is any indication —- WOW!  The top end is significantly better than the m3’s without being fatiguing or sibilant.  The bottom end is sufficient from where I sit.  Honestly i had  some remorse initially that I didn’t get the larger M3’s but they would have probably overwhelmed my room. To my ears they are a significant upgrade to the prior M3 turbos which were no slouch.  Congrats Clayton on a truly phenomenal product that needs to be heard to be believed.  I have no desire to upgrade again ( until Clayton comes up with something better ). Also a more customer friendly person you will not find anywhere.  If anyone is on the fence  don’t hesitate to purchase or upgrade. You won’t be disappointed!

Shakeydeal

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #263 on: 7 Dec 2019, 02:25 am »
Looks good. I love that finish. Congrats!

Shakey

SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #264 on: 7 Dec 2019, 03:04 am »



Hello to all. Had the M3 turbo s and upgraded to the M5s. Speakers are about 9 feet apart and sitting 9 feet away. Toe in for now is roughly 30°.  Just hooked them up Wednesday so they need quite a bit of break in. If the initial performance is any indication —- WOW!  The top end is significantly better than the m3’s without being fatiguing or sibilant.  The bottom end is sufficient from where I sit.  Honestly i had  some remorse initially that I didn’t get the larger M3’s but they would have probably overwhelmed my room. To my ears they are a significant upgrade to the prior M3 turbos which were no slouch.  Congrats Clayton on a truly phenomenal product that needs to be heard to be believed.  I have no desire to upgrade again ( until Clayton comes up with something better ). Also a more customer friendly person you will not find anywhere.  If anyone is on the fence  don’t hesitate to purchase or upgrade. You won’t be disappointed!

Looks really nice.  Thanks for sharing pics.  I will say that if you play them a lot in a few days you notice a significant break-in with that woofer.  You will get fuller bass.

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #265 on: 7 Dec 2019, 03:35 am »
Thanks.  Yes The walnut finish looks great in my room. Inc toe in some more and bass is fuller.  House is empty tonight so I have been cranking Metallica! That should break in those woofers !

SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #266 on: 7 Dec 2019, 04:14 am »
Thanks.  Yes The walnut finish looks great in my room. Inc toe in some more and bass is fuller.  House is empty tonight so I have been cranking Metallica! That should break in those woofers !

Your bass may be fuller by reducing phase cancellation from rear reflections from your toe in.  My acoustic panels behind the speakers are making the bass fuller as well.  Thinking of getting another couple of panels (bass traps in this case) from ATS that actually absorb below 100hz but remain reflective in the higher frequencies.  Then I would put the current 2" panels on the wall that is about 2' behind my head and see if there is any benefit there.  If not I will move them to the home theater room as that room is currently too reflective.

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #267 on: 7 Dec 2019, 04:21 am »
Thanks.  I have been contemplating adding bass traps as well.  I’m going to break these in for a bit and let them settle.  Then bass traps.  I have 2 in my home theater room that I could always move temporarily

mreeter

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #268 on: 7 Dec 2019, 03:09 pm »
Jprod, You have very nice place to enjoy your Music, has a warm, comfortable feel to it. Do I see a VPI Prime in the rack coupled to a PSA Phono Pre? What is the associated gear if you don't mind me asking?

jazzman463

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #269 on: 7 Dec 2019, 06:35 pm »
I am drooling. They look beautiful. Hopping mine ship next week. I did the walnut with a gray stain. Thanks for the pictures.

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #270 on: 7 Dec 2019, 07:02 pm »
Thanks!   It’s my decompression room. It’s quiet comfortable and nicely decorated by my wife.  That’s part of the reason I didn’t push for the large M3’s.  Room is actually quite long. Behind the couch is a foosball table and a full bar area behind that. I only sit and listen critically down there on the couch. 
Gear is as follows
VPI prime with Ortofon 2 m black, vpi sds speed controller, ps Audio stellar phono pre , bel canto eone stream , wyred4sound stpse preamp , parasound a21 amp. Interconnect  cabling is by audio sensibility and speaker wire is clear day Audio double shotgun silver cable ( RIP Paul Laudati.  Another true gem in the audio industry) .  All plugged into an audioquest niagra 1200. 

The stellar pre is unbelievable.  Had a Manley chinook prior to this and it is a significant upgrade.  More detail and 3d. Best audio purchase next to spatial audio gear.

mreeter

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #271 on: 7 Dec 2019, 07:27 pm »
Thanks!   It’s my decompression room. It’s quiet comfortable and nicely decorated by my wife.  That’s part of the reason I didn’t push for the large M3’s.  Room is actually quite long. Behind the couch is a foosball table and a full bar area behind that. I only sit and listen critically down there on the couch. 
Gear is as follows
VPI prime with Ortofon 2 m black, vpi sds speed controller, ps Audio stellar phono pre , bel canto eone stream , wyred4sound stpse preamp , parasound a21 amp. Interconnect  cabling is by audio sensibility and speaker wire is clear day Audio double shotgun silver cable ( RIP Paul Laudati.  Another true gem in the audio industry) .  All plugged into an audioquest niagra 1200. 

The stellar pre is unbelievable.  Had a Manley chinook prior to this and it is a significant upgrade.  More detail and 3d. Best audio purchase next to spatial audio gear.

Nice line-up of the Cast of Characters :wink: I would imagine the A-21 is driving the Spatials with ease :thumb:

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #272 on: 7 Dec 2019, 07:30 pm »
Doesn’t break a sweat

timing3435

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M3 Sapphires are on the way
« Reply #273 on: 11 Dec 2019, 07:24 pm »
My M3 Sapphire's are on the way...In Kansas City now headed to Florida.  I cannot wait to get them going. Clayton has been great, as everyone has said, to work with.  A man dedicated to his passion.
 I have a pair of old DCM TimeFrame 1000's to replace. Will keep everyone posted. I am not capable of the in-depth reviews I have seen on these threads but I will give you my best attempts. Regardless, the  DCM TimeFrame 1000's and the Buchardt S400's Special Editions have given me great pleasure. Currently running the S400's. Very good bookshelf speakers and highly regarded at its price point.
 I bought M3 Sapphires based on hearing Youtube videos of the old M3's and said why not. Take a listen to this and look at Clayton's grin after the music. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmZnJC6Zwe0&t=842s ) I put my monies down based on this video, talking to Clayton, not wanting to wait in case the CAF caused a big backorder. How can you lose with a 60-day trial?  I then heard them at CAF and meet Clayton. No going back.  I was very impressed and thought the sound in that room was better than 99% at the show. Nothing came close at the $4200 point. This was later confirmed by written reviews.  So it is now my turn, much to be grateful for. 


Shakeydeal

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #274 on: 11 Dec 2019, 07:32 pm »
DCM, ahh that brings back memories.

I had a pair of TF400s back in the late 80s. Bought 'em at Circuit City. They were pretty good for the size and what they cost. I enjoyed them for several years.

Shakey

glynnw

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #275 on: 11 Dec 2019, 08:25 pm »
Noting the similarities in speaker tastes here.  I had DCM QEDs and Time Windows. Some friends in Florida still have the Time Windows.  Now I have M3TMs and X5s on order.

jazzman463

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #276 on: 12 Dec 2019, 01:06 pm »
Hey Timing 3435 and Glynnw, were in Florida are you located ? I am in South West... Naples. By the way my M5's will replace a pair of beautiful of Spica TC 50's. I recently liquidated my vintage stuff ( getting old) which included two pair of DCM Time windows. My living room system has a pair of Usher 6371's, seems we all have an attraction to some form of time manipulation/delay.

glynnw

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #277 on: 12 Dec 2019, 05:05 pm »
I lived in the Tampa area when I was there.  And to further the old speaker owning data, I have owned Spica TC-50s, TC-60s and a pair od the subs.

jazzman463

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #278 on: 13 Dec 2019, 01:35 pm »
YA HOOO, I just received my bill of landing. Nuff said.

Jprod

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #279 on: 13 Dec 2019, 04:22 pm »
Can someone explain to me why the m5 and m3 on the specs both say 32 hz? Shouldn’t the m3 be lower with the 2 woofers Or is the m3 just more impactful on the low end down to the same frequency?