M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction

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SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #240 on: 19 Nov 2019, 12:13 pm »
I see Clayton and Snow Puppy mention 25 to 100 hours of break-in time.  I've had my M3 Sapphires less than a week so am ramping up hours. 

What SPL do you find is appropriate for this early time? 

Thx, Bob
I second what Shakeydeal said.  Does not need to be loud for break-in but may take longer which is fine.  Do what you can.  I did not do mine super loud while at work because I did not want to bother people at home during the day. So I used moderate to moderately loud volumes of brown and pink noise.  Highs and midrange will become more natural and imaging will improve.  While the bass was impactful at the start on mine I noticed after a little more than a week a significant increase in bass authority.

What finish did you get?

bobh123

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #241 on: 20 Nov 2019, 06:19 am »
Thanks for the break-in tips.  Will run them when the dog and others are not at home

I bought the walnut finish mainly chosen because we have walnut floors.  The M3S walnut finish is very subtle.  Our floors have a wide variation of textures and colors so the sapele would have also worked.



SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #242 on: 20 Nov 2019, 12:12 pm »
Thanks for the break-in tips.  Will run them when the dog and others are not at home

I bought the walnut finish mainly chosen because we have walnut floors.  The M3S walnut finish is very subtle.  Our floors have a wide variation of textures and colors so the sapele would have also worked.


Thank you for the pic.  Your M3 Sapphires are beautiful.  Have fun getting to know them.  By the way I think I see an acoustic panel in the background?  I have a 2" ATS acoustic panels behind each of my Sapphires.  Improves bass impact and detail some.  You can see in one of my previous pics.  I now have it vertical vs. horizontal like I had them on the M3TM.  Not sure yet if I will keep vertical or horizontal.  For now I do not have an urge to switch back from vertical to horizontal.

timing3435

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #243 on: 20 Nov 2019, 01:41 pm »
  By the way I think I see an acoustic panel in the background?  I have a 2" ATS acoustic panels behind each of my Sapphires.  Improves bass impact and detail some.  You can see in one of my previous pics.  I now have it vertical vs. horizontal like I had them on the M3TM.  Not sure yet if I will keep vertical or horizontal.  For now, I do not have an urge to switch back from vertical to horizontal.
Curious about the type of ATS panels you are using. Advantages of Diffusers vs Absorbers vs  Diffuser/Absorption combos? Never had an open baffle speaker and saw something on YTube about putting diffusers behind them? Is this another try and see what works situation? 

SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #244 on: 20 Nov 2019, 03:37 pm »
Curious about the type of ATS panels you are using. Advantages of Diffusers vs Absorbers vs  Diffuser/Absorption combos? Never had an open baffle speaker and saw something on YTube about putting diffusers behind them? Is this another try and see what works situation?
Please take this with a grain of salt because I still have a lot to learn when it comes to room acoustics.  But I am convinced that setup and room treatment are very important for getting the best out of our equipment.

With open baffle speakers if you get too close to the front wall, reflections will do a phase cancellation on the forward firing bass.  With a box speakers bass gets reinforced as they get closer to the front wall.  With open baffle pulling further out from the front wall increases bass to a point.  An acoustic panel behind an open baffle speaker can mimic how it would perform in a large room further away from walls.  Clayton recommended this for the M3TM in the horizontal position behind the lower woofer and it was an improvement for me.  Did not want to put an absorber directly behind the dipolar compression driver because I wanted those reflections and a more lively sound from them.  That is not as much of a concern with the Sapphires since the mid/tweeter is not dipolar.  That is why I am trying them vertically.  Look at pics at the Spatial Sapphires Room at CAF 2019 and you will notice some acoustic panels behind the Spatials.  Also without controlled directivity as I had with the M3TM room treatment is more of a priority.  Fortunately my room works well with the wider dispersion of the Sapphires mid/tweeter.  That is because I have a large roll top desk that acts as a diffuser at the reflection point on the left and an open space to the right.

Absorption panels can sometimes cause dead sound if too much absorption is used in a small room. Diffusion on the other hand, adds a sense of spaciousness and retains the room’s natural ambiance while still keeping reflections from interfering with the clarity of the sound coming directly from the speakers at it hits your ear.  So if you want a lively spacious sound then diffusers help keep that and without reflection interference.  If your room is too lively then absorption panels can be added.  Bass traps are absorption panels for example.  Absorption panels can be designed to absorb some frequencies while reflecting others.  That is why sometimes you see a hybrid absorption panel that also diffuses.  So depends on your room, speaker, and what you are after when it comes to room treatments. 

dvdboulet

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #245 on: 24 Nov 2019, 02:08 pm »
You might be the one I replied to on Agon, but I have a pair of X3s about 3.5 hours from DC. Happy to demo.

Shakey

Thanks Shakey!

Yes... that's me on Agon too. Much appreciated. As I get funds (hopefully the first half in 2020) to upgrade my speakers, you might hear from me if my budget is able to extend to the X3s. Question for you... did you audition/compare against the M3s as well? Or just go straight to the X3? Thanks!

-Dave

Shakeydeal

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #246 on: 24 Nov 2019, 03:35 pm »
Dave,

I have never heard any other spatial speakers. I bought the X3s blind and couldn’t be happier.

Shakey



Audiosaurusrex

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #247 on: 24 Nov 2019, 06:54 pm »
How far apart should I start with the placement of my M3’s when I get them? Here is my current setup with my Vandys.


SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #248 on: 25 Nov 2019, 02:45 am »
How far apart should I start with the placement of my M3’s when I get them? Here is my current setup with my Vandys.


The front of the M3 Sapphire baffle should be at least 30" out from the front wall.  Mine are closer to 41" from font wall.  I also have a slight toe in.  Your distance from the side walls is probably fine. Mine are not close to the side walls so perhaps other could comment on open baffle interaction with side walls.

bobh123

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #249 on: 25 Nov 2019, 06:12 am »
Thank you for the pic.  Your M3 Sapphires are beautiful.  Have fun getting to know them.  By the way I think I see an acoustic panel in the background?  I have a 2" ATS acoustic panels behind each of my Sapphires.  Improves bass impact and detail some.  You can see in one of my previous pics.  I now have it vertical vs. horizontal like I had them on the M3TM.  Not sure yet if I will keep vertical or horizontal.  For now I do not have an urge to switch back from vertical to horizontal.
I really like the simple yet elegant look of the M3's.  I'm experimenting with room treatment, starting with moderate density foam panels for selected wall locations and triangular blocks for the corners.  Starting to analyze with freq & impulse responses to hone placement; lots to learn.  Thx for the tip on ATS panels; will consider those if the foam is insufficient.

aniwolfe

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #250 on: 28 Nov 2019, 01:35 am »
Anticipating the arrival of my Sapphires I wanted to get a visual of what they would look like in White. So here is my quick Photo-shopped version. Not sure the exact shade of gray for the grills, could be darker or lighter.






 
« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2019, 03:04 am by aniwolfe »

heywaj10

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #251 on: 28 Nov 2019, 05:24 pm »
Anticipating the arrival of my Sapphires I wanted to get a visual of what they would look like in White. So here is my quick Photo-shopped version. Not sure the exact shade of gray for the grills, could be darker or lighter.






Ooooh....those look fantastic!

sockpit

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #252 on: 28 Nov 2019, 05:56 pm »
Hi guys,

I'm new to audiocircle and have an order in for the M5s.  Has anyone here received theirs and are you willing to post about them yet?  Not finding much.  Please direct me to the right place if I'm mistaken.

I have an 11 by 13 dedicated listening room/office.  Am hoping these will do the trick and that the muddiness of my current speakers aren't simply an inherent limitation of my listening environment.  Enjoy jazz, rock, bluegrass, but am especially hoping to here classical orchestral works, e.g., the BSO's stunning recent rendition of Shostakovich's 10th come alive.

Thanks!

Paul Speltz

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #253 on: 30 Nov 2019, 05:17 pm »
Aniwolfe,

I'm looking forward to my M3 Sapphires arriving as well. I didn't know they are available in white. I suppose Clayton is doing that as a custom color for you.

I originally ordered mine in Walnut, but changed it to Sepele with dark walnut stain after getting back from Capital AudioFest.

Hopefully mine will ship soon. Once they are broken-in, everyone is welcome to come over to listen to them. I'm in the Twin Cities MN.

Thanks!

: )

Paul Speltz
(AntiCables)

SnowPuppy77

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #254 on: 30 Nov 2019, 08:57 pm »
Hi guys,

I'm new to audiocircle and have an order in for the M5s.  Has anyone here received theirs and are you willing to post about them yet?  Not finding much.  Please direct me to the right place if I'm mistaken.

I have an 11 by 13 dedicated listening room/office.  Am hoping these will do the trick and that the muddiness of my current speakers aren't simply an inherent limitation of my listening environment.  Enjoy jazz, rock, bluegrass, but am especially hoping to here classical orchestral works, e.g., the BSO's stunning recent rendition of Shostakovich's 10th come alive.

Thanks!

My room generates a lot of bass bloat with box speakers.  My previous box speakers, Paradigm Studio 100v.2 do not have bloated bass in the right room but they do in my current room.  When I switched to open baffle the bloat and muddiness in the bass went away.  I believe you will experience a significant improvement in bass.  I just played the original Brubeck Time Out Analog Productions 45 rpm vinyl with my Dad and he thought it sounded great.  It does sound excellent.  Then we played Analog Productions Ray Brown Trio Soular Energy and it sounded excellent.  That Ray Brown Trio LP is pretty bass heavy and it sounded tight and clear on the M3S while still retaining a nice voluptuous warmth.  I think your M5S will deliver that as well.  The piano on the Ray Brown Trio is amazingly clear making you very cognizant that it is a percussion instrument.  Dynamics shifts a very nicely resolved.  When the high keys are slammed in a trill it really pops out into the room

Don_S

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #255 on: 30 Nov 2019, 09:16 pm »
Aniwolfe,

I'm looking forward to my M3 Sapphires arriving as well. I didn't know they are available in white. I suppose Clayton is doing that as a custom color for you.

I originally ordered mine in Walnut, but changed it to Sepele with dark walnut stain after getting back from Capital AudioFest.

Hopefully mine will ship soon. Once they are broken-in, everyone is welcome to come over to listen to them. I'm in the Twin Cities MN.

Thanks!

: )

Paul Speltz
(AntiCables)

Paul, 

White, black, and red are all options on the drop down menu in the Spatial Store along with the 3 wood choices.

Audiosaurusrex

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #256 on: 30 Nov 2019, 09:28 pm »
Aniwolfe,

I'm looking forward to my M3 Sapphires arriving as well. I didn't know they are available in white. I suppose Clayton is doing that as a custom color for you.

I originally ordered mine in Walnut, but changed it to Sepele with dark walnut stain after getting back from Capital AudioFest.

Hopefully mine will ship soon. Once they are broken-in, everyone is welcome to come over to listen to them. I'm in the Twin Cities MN.

Thanks!

: )

Paul Speltz
(AntiCables)

Paul,
I have the same color on order. I’m sure you’ll get yours before me  :cry: I sent you an email about your anticables but with the holidays you probably haven’t gotten to it.
Looking to do the Biwire shotgun as you suggested.
Thanks
René

Paul Speltz

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #257 on: 30 Nov 2019, 10:16 pm »
Don_S,   

Thanks for letting us know. Since the M3 Sapphire web page only says "Finish: Choice of real wood veneers - Walnut, Sepele, and Maple", I bet a lot of people don't know they are also available in White, Black, and Red. Cool!



Audiosaurusrex,

Yep, I'm a bit behind on emails. Judy and I headed out to have dinner with friends. I'll do my best to get to my emails tomorrow morning.


Thanks!

Paul Speltz
(AntiCables)

Audiosaurusrex

Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #258 on: 30 Nov 2019, 10:31 pm »
Don_S,   

Thanks for letting us know. Since the M3 Sapphire web page only says "Finish: Choice of real wood veneers - Walnut, Sepele, and Maple", I bet a lot of people don't know they are also available in White, Black, and Red. Cool!



Audiosaurusrex,

Yep, I'm a bit behind on emails. Judy and I headed out to have dinner with friends. I'll do my best to get to my emails tomorrow morning.


Thanks!

Paul Speltz
(AntiCables)

Absolutely Paul Enjoy!

Paul Speltz

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Re: M5 Sapphire - All new M design introduction
« Reply #259 on: 1 Dec 2019, 05:24 pm »
Audiosaurusrex / René,

Thinking that others may benefit from your email questions to me, I decided to answer them here, especially since you mentioned it here yesterday.

M3 / M5 Turbo S and Triode Master speakers:

With Spatial's Turbo S and Triode Master speakers, Clayton and I have always run AntiCables Level 3.1 Speaker Wires at every audio show we have done. We are very good at being able to put together a demo room that sounds better than the majority, while being one of the least expensive at the show. A tough act to pull off. With this goal in mind, we don't even consider dropping AntiCables Level 5 or Level 6 Speaker Wires into the system.  But...

When running the M3 Triode Master speakers in my home, I am free to use whatever speaker wires I want, so for quite a while I ran Level 6, just because I could. About a month ago, I decided to experiment with speaker wires, because I was getting the feeling there was not good synergy between the Level 6 and the M3TM. I tried a pair of my AntiCables Level 3.1 Speaker Wires, and liked them better. Cool!

I think the Level 6 Speaker Wires being more resolving didn't work well with the Triode Master's high frequencies signature. I am not pointing fingers at the Triode Master speakers, as all high frequency drivers have a signature (a sound of their own that is not part of the music). The great thing discovered is that the Turbo S and M3 Triode Master speakers actually sound better with the less expensive Level 3.1 Speaker Wires. The politeness of very low dislocation density pure copper wire has good synergy with the older M3 models.


Sapphire Speakers:

At Capital AudioFest 2019 a few weeks ago, Clayton and I again used Level 3.1 Speaker Wires to achieve our goal of great sound for little cost. For anyone buying the new M3 or M5 Sapphire speakers, AntiCables Level 3.1 Speaker Wires are highly recommended.  After all, the Level 3.1 / Sapphire combination (along with LTA, LampizatOr, and Innuos electronics), got recognized as a top sounding room by both Stereophile and AVShowrooms.

Even though the Sapphire speakers do not have bi-wire terminals, they can be bi-wires because of these two facts:

1) The Sapphire tweeter is electrically connected directly to the amplifier output (no internal x-over network)

2) The Sapphire tweeter has 4mm Banana Sockets on the back (as you can see in this photo from "SnowPuppy77")





Because of this, factory leads can be unplugged and an alternate pair of speaker wires can be directly connected. Beautiful!

From what I heard at CAF, the Sapphire tweeter is higher resolving, has less sonic signatures, and is more extended than earlier M3 models. Because of this, I am expecting the Sapphire HF driver will benefit from the higher resolving Level 5 ACElectrum™ Silver/Gold alloy metallurgy.

When I get my pair of M3 Sapphire speakers, I'm going to simply start with a pair of Level 3.1 Speaker Wires so they are the same as at CAF.

After they are well broken-in, and I am very familiar with the sound, I'll unplug the factory wires out of the tweeter and run Level 5 directly to them, from the amplifier, for highest resolution. The back of the tweeters have Banana plugs, so it is super easy to do this. One just has to be sure that the two unused factory banana plugs don't touch anything (insulated with electrical tape or shrink tubing).

To answer you question about what terminations to order to do this bi-wire configuration, I recommend:

- Level 3.1 Speaker Wires with our optional Bananas on both ends (connect to factory speaker terminals)

- Level 5 Speaker Wires with Spades on the Amplifier ends, and optional Bananas on the Speaker Ends (connect to sapphire tweeter)

Both can be seen here: http://anticables.com/speaker-wires/2-channel

Having one set of speaker wire with spades and the other with bananas, makes it easy to connect both to the same amplifier output terminals.

Hope that helps.

Please ask any questions anyone has about cabling the Spatial speakers, and I'll do my best to answer them as best I can.

Thanks!
Paul Speltz(AntiCables)