Raw Speakers That Worth to Know

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FullRangeMan

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Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« on: 29 Jun 2019, 03:10 pm »
Have found this woofer last week, its much better than the Beyma 15P80Nd for home audio use at half the price, both are Neo magnet and 100dB SPL but the Eminence have much ligther cone 84g and half the RMS power mading it easier to drive, for just 220usd it sport a large 11oz Neo magnet.

Iam enthusiastic with this driver and its possibilities with a small tube amp.
https://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Kappalite_3015

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #1 on: 29 Jun 2019, 05:58 pm »
FRM,

The Eminence driver you listed is a fine driver and probably appropriate for your needs and purposes. But the Beyma is more expensive and demonstrably superior.

http://www.loudspeakerdatabase.com/Beyma/15P80Nd/Beyma_15P80Nd.pdf

I respectfully disagree with you and also disagree with your assertion that a “lower” RMS power handling spec means the speaker is “easier” to drive. That is not true. Not the right interpretation and not the right specification to look at. You should be looking at the impedance curve in the box you are building for the driver and the sensitivity of the driver before making that assessment. That means you need to measure it first in the box you want it in. From the outset, both the Eminence and Beyma appear to be equally easy to drive but the Beyma will play louder with less compression at peak SPL’s, and can be used in a smaller box due to a smaller VAS.

And if you truly want to compare the drivers you should ask for the Klippel data. T/S parameters and marketing spec sheets only tell you so much and not enough imho.

You get what you pay for.

Best,
Anand.

JohnR

Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #2 on: 30 Jun 2019, 04:04 am »
The response curve of the 3015 looks quite smoothed. FRM you would be using those in a vented enclosure? With a ... crossover?

There's also a 3015LF version with more excursion - https://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Kappalite_3015LF

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #3 on: 30 Jun 2019, 11:34 am »
Yes I prefer a BassReflex enclosure for these drivers, in my case I have on hand a 4.7mH inductor I got from Jeff it will cut first order at 270Hz. The 3015 freq chart looks flat why it is a hi power plot for pro-audio guys to look at, not the usual 1W/2,83V few audiophiles people note this chart was smoothed.

The 3015 VAS is lower 153L the Beyma are 184L also it have a big 4 inches VC, not possible to drive it with a small tube amp, the Beyma also sport a larger cone displacement but it not useful in a home audio use, the 3015 capabilities are suffice.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #4 on: 30 Jun 2019, 01:59 pm »
Yes I prefer a BassReflex enclosure for these drivers, in my case I have on hand a 4.7mH inductor I got from Jeff it will cut first order at 270Hz. The 3015 freq chart looks flat why it is a hi power plot for pro-audio guys to look at, not the usual 1W/2,83V few audiophiles people note this chart was smoothed.

The 3015 VAS is lower 153L the Beyma are 184L also it have a big 4 inches VC, not possible to drive it with a small tube amp, the Beyma also sport a larger cone displacement but it not useful in a home audio use, the 3015 capabilities are suffice.

FRM,

I had seen somewhere else that the VAS for the Beyma is 90L: http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2015P80Nd-1.htm

Probably an error or misprint?

Yes, the Eminence 3015 should suffice for your needs but if more LF extension is needed the Beyma can hit harder (it has a significantly higher BL) and looks like a nice woofer and I love 4 inch VC as the thermal handling is more (less SPL compression at higher SPLs). But I think you are in Brazil and it might cost much more there than USA based Eminence.

Are you building a 2 way? 3 way? Are you matching it to a fullrange driver?

I use B&C, BMS and Funk in my builds but they are $$$ and I built them as midbass and bass modules so pretty easy for a diyer. But if you are going to build a 2way or multiway you will need extensive measurements and experience.

Good luck and do share your build.

Best,
Anand.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #5 on: 30 Jun 2019, 02:57 pm »
Iam not building new enclosure at the moment, but these speakers could match nicely a FR OB for a 2 way. I located 3 PDF files from this Beyma model where the TS parameters are not the same, seems 3 different versions.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #6 on: 4 Jul 2019, 12:20 pm »
For compare an hi power pro-audio freq grafic to a 1W/2.83V hi-fi audio chart see these images below, this first below is the Alpha15A hi Wattage chart suited to pro audio custumers:

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #7 on: 4 Jul 2019, 12:24 pm »
This second image is the PAP 15 Ferrite (an Alpha15A clone)
and the next 3º image below is the PAP15Neo that they say use the Alpha 15A cone + Neo magnet in a 1W 2.83V response, it show a very different look from the linear hi power chart.


poseidonsvoice

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #8 on: 4 Jul 2019, 12:55 pm »
FRM,

In addition to making sure you are comparing the drivers at the same VOLTAGE level (2.83V RMS), you must also compare them with the same coordinates. The vertical range on your 1st graph is only 40dB while the second and third graphs it is 60dB range. This is a type of “vertical smoothing.” It also appears that there is more horizontal smoothing in the 1st graph.

Best,
Anand.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #9 on: 4 Jul 2019, 01:22 pm »
In the past I used to do these graphic adjustments for proper comparison but now Iam short on time as I work 12 hours a day on a night job due my pension were canceled.

JohnR

Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #10 on: 5 Jul 2019, 02:38 am »
I'm not quite sure what you are comparing here, FRM, or what you refer to as "hi power" as these all seem to be 2.83V measurements. I do kinda think however that if you are using a single inductor as lowpass then it might be best to avoid a driver with a resonant peak as all those do.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #11 on: 5 Jul 2019, 09:45 am »
The PAP charts are 1W/2.83V; the Eminence charts are not 1W measurement instead they are hi power/near to max power measurements suited to the pro-audio market.

Pro-audio guys have only interest in the hi power graphic that are how they used the drivers.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #12 on: 5 Jul 2019, 02:06 pm »
The PAP charts are 1W/2.83V; the Eminence charts are not 1W measurement instead they are hi power/near to max power measurements suited to the pro-audio market.

Pro-audio guys have only interest in the hi power graphic that are how they used the drivers.

Here is what Eminence says in their footnote for your link in your 1st post of this thread:

"All speakers are tested at 1W/1m using a variety of test set-ups for the appropriate impedance | LMS using 0.25" supplied microphone (software calibrated) mounted 1m from wall/baffle | 2 ft. x 2 ft. baffle is built into the wall with the speaker mounted flush against a steel ring for minimum diffraction | Yamaha P3500S amplifier | 2700 cu. ft. chamber with fiberglass on all six surfaces (three with custom-made wedges)"

Best,
Anand.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #13 on: 5 Jul 2019, 08:20 pm »
Interesting note, I will not lie to you to be sincere I dont believe it, its impossible all Eminence drivers response are this flat, or they made a treatment to flatten these graphics, Iam really surprised.

JohnR

Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #14 on: 6 Jul 2019, 01:38 am »
You mean the Kappalite? Alpha looks very different.

You could look at the Faital 15PR400



https://faitalpro.com/en/products/LF_Loudspeakers/product_details/index.php?id=101060100

Quite expensive in the USA, though, other countries are much btter priced - https://www.parts-express.com/faitalpro-15pr400-15-neodymium-professional-woofer-8-ohm--294-1271

FRM what about PRV?

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #15 on: 6 Jul 2019, 01:53 pm »
PRV is near, they came from Selenium they used to have two nice low priced 15'' for OB in the Alpha15A style, one is the 15W700:

gab

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #16 on: 6 Jul 2019, 03:04 pm »


You could look at the Faital 15PR400



+1 on the Faital Pro 15PR400. I use it on the Troels Gravesen designed OBL-15 baffle and OBL-11 crossover.

gab

FullRangeMan

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Re: Raw Speakers That Worth to Know
« Reply #17 on: 9 Jul 2019, 11:14 pm »
The Faital large VAS 223L will need a big bass reflex box.
Iam limited to 160L that is the project I have.