Super Mini's up and playing over here. New videos on page 2.

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Tyson

Thanks Danny for the video. I have been interested in the NX-octica since it has been out, but you have several interesting speakers that are just as interesting and now these Mini's. Your video sounds nice on computer speakers and I really like the looks of the Mini's on top of the woofer section. Just can't tell how they image and how they would perform with classical music. I hope to hear your products some day. I like the Mini and woofer section being in 2 pieces. I think I need to make it to an audio show in Texas. LSAF Lone Star Audio Fest?

What is the name of the group performing the music and what is the title of the LP or CD?

Hope to see more video from you Danny. Nicely done.

Jeff

Hope Danny doesn't mind me stepping in here to talk about the sound of the Neo10/Neo3 combo used in this speaker (they are used in my Super 7 speakers too).  I'm a classical music fanatic, just check out all my posts in the What Classical Music are you listening to, luv thread, in the Classical Music Circle (which I also am the Facilitator for).  IME, the Neo3/Neo10 combo is the best pair of drivers for classical in the world.  It's a bold statement but I'll back it up with the very specific things that these drivers excel at over all others, IME. 

Tone - There's no point in listening to music if the tone isn't right.  Music should sound beautiful and it should sound real.  Nothing captures tone like these speakers. 

Imaging - If you're listening to a large orchestra, your speakers should be able to scale.  And the cellos should stay firmly put on the right, violins left, percussion rear left, double basses rear right.  Even when all hell breaks loose, you should be able to keep track of what each instrumental group is doing.

Detail - I mean musical detail here, not clinical analytical sound.  Another place where other speakers just can't really match the speed and resolution of the Neo3/Neo10 setup.  From the rosin of the bow, to the steel tension of the strings to the resonating wooden body, you hear everything and its always breathtakingly beautiful.

Seamless Integration - This is another area where the Neo3/Neo10 speakers really, really distance themselves from the competition.  If you listen to any vocal classical music, you know that soprano voice, in particular, gives the LARGE MAJORITY of speakers fits!  When the singer really leans into the notes, almost every speaker sounds like there's microphone overload, or driver breakup.  In reality it's that with those other speakers, the mid/tweeter just don't integrate perfectly.  And PERFECT integration is what you MUST have.  The Neo3/Neo10 drivers DO have perfect integration.  Hell, before I got the Super 7s, I didn't even LIKE opera or vocal recitals because it literally hurt my ears when listening to it on other speakers. 

Anyway, I've babbled on enough about them.  Suffice to say, these speakers are spectacularly good for classical music. 

Danny23

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Re: Super Mini's up and playing over here.
« Reply #41 on: 23 Jun 2019, 04:29 pm »
The No Rez dampens out any resonance of the panel and absorbs some of the acoustic energy and minimizing surface reflection from it.

Danny - Would your other winged speakers benefit from No Res as well?  Specifically the wedgies?

Captainhemo

Thanks Danny for the video. I have been interested in the NX-octica since it has been out, but you have several interesting speakers that are just as interesting and now these Mini's. Your video sounds nice on computer speakers and I really like the looks of the Mini's on top of the woofer section. Just can't tell how they image and how they would perform with classical music. I hope to hear your products some day. I like the Mini and woofer section being in 2 pieces. I think I need to make it to an audio show in Texas. LSAF Lone Star Audio Fest?

What is the name of the group performing the music and what is the title of the LP or CD?

Hope to see more video from you Danny. Nicely done.

Jeff

Jeff
The Super Mini's  are going to image insanely well.   Kept the baffle  extremely narow (6.25") with large  radius on the verticle edges.  Intent was to   have them   at least  equal the Wedgies in this department. 
I,  like  Tyson, am impressed with the imaging of the  Super 7's but  I  can't wait to   build out  a pair of these.... hopefully  inthe next run we cut. 
Trade off  compared to say the  s7's  is that  you'll lose some sensitivity, but man,   that  super narrow front profile......

jay

Danny Richie

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Re: Super Mini's up and playing over here.
« Reply #43 on: 23 Jun 2019, 07:22 pm »
Danny - Would your other winged speakers benefit from No Res as well?  Specifically the wedgies?

Yes

saygrr

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Thanks Tyson and Jay for your comments. My current room is 20 feet long 14 feet 8 feet high. Jay would you consider that a small room so the Super Mini's will benefit bass wise?

Just a short description of my system. Phono Lenco with Artasan Achatese mod, Kuzma Stogi Reference arm, Cartridge Clear Audio Maestro V2, K&K audio Maxxed out phono stage, SMC TLS line stage with SMC Signature revision, amps are also SMC. What amps would be a great match with the Super Mini's? I have a Stealth Metacarbon  IC which I would want to keep, it has XLR connectors so amp inputs I would want  XLR type. The SMC mono blocks are great but at 600 watt each and other factors I would want to change amps if I should change speakers.




Captainhemo

You're  not  going to gain much bass  out of these  no matter  what the size of the room.   You'll need some sort of  lower  section to paly  up  and meet them around  the  200 hz  mark.  I know right  now,  Danny  has them  paired  with  3 servo 8's per channel  covering  from  rouighly  200-30 hz  then  passign  off to a  set of  3 12's per channel  from  30  down.   A pair of  dual  12's  will play  up  and meet hem  if you   wanted to start  with  that.... Danny  is also  working on an active  M165  lower section  that  lower the  crossover point tothe subs.
I wouldn't hesitate to  try  your  curent amps with them.  I'm  running   A  Mivera Pure Power  (Ice Power  AS/2 1200 based)  with my Super 7's  with great  reustls.   If  you  wanted, you  could   run  an inline  filter to    reduce the  amount of  low end  the  Neo 10  is  trying  to paly.

If you   really  wanted to try  some   different, lower   powered options.... i know  where  you   pick up a pair of  K&K (Kevin built) 6C33C  P?P  SET transofrmer couo0pled mono's.     I have a thread on these  in the  tube-o-file circle where  Kevin actually  joins in and  talks  about  this particular pair.


Rocket_Ronny

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Quote
And as for this design (the Super Mini), the Neo 10 easily handles ranges down to 200Hz. They give up nothing playing down into those ranges even at really high SPL levels the whole system maintains a super accurate response.

When I had the Genesis 7 monitors with it's small 4-5" woofer crossed over the servo subs at 200hz and compared that to the Super Vs, the Gens lacked the impact and body of the Super Vs in the 200 to 700 hz range. That is why I would doubt the neo 10 would do any better as I doubt it will move more air. 

That got me thinking of adding a pair of Fostex 4" full rangers I have here to the super mini and crossing it over to the neo 3 the same as the neo 10. You would gain 3 db eff. and move way more air, although give up coherency I suppose. Or add another neo 10 above the neo 3.

Rocket Ronny

Tyson

4-5

When I had the Genesis 7 monitors with it's small 4-5" woofer crossed over the servo subs at 200hz and compared that to the Super Vs, the Gens lacked the impact and body of the Super Vs in the 200 to 700 hz range. That is why I would doubt the neo 10 would do any better as I doubt it will move more air. 

That got me thinking of adding a pair of Fostex 4" full rangers I have here to the super mini and crossing it over to the neo 3 the same as the neo 10. You would gain 3 db eff. and move way more air, although give up coherency I suppose. Or add another neo 10 above the neo 3.

Rocket Ronny

Or just get the Super 7 kit if you're concerned about that. 

Danny Richie

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4-5

When I had the Genesis 7 monitors with it's small 4-5" woofer crossed over the servo subs at 200hz and compared that to the Super Vs, the Gens lacked the impact and body of the Super Vs in the 200 to 700 hz range. That is why I would doubt the neo 10 would do any better as I doubt it will move more air. 

That got me thinking of adding a pair of Fostex 4" full rangers I have here to the super mini and crossing it over to the neo 3 the same as the neo 10. You would gain 3 db eff. and move way more air, although give up coherency I suppose. Or add another neo 10 above the neo 3.

Rocket Ronny

Ronnie,

These should play SPL levels of 100 to 110db at the seating position pretty easily. And the response will still be flat. 200Hz and up doesn't require a lot of air movement capability.

And the impact that you get from the Super-V in that range isn't because the driver can move a lot of air. That is a high sensitivity driver with a huge dynamic range capability. 

Rocket_Ronny

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Thanks.

When I play my music, loud, like I normally do and lightly put my finger on the 12" coax P Audio driver, I feel it moves quite a bit. I hardly think that a BG Neo 10 would move nearly as much.

Rocket Ronny

Danny Richie

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Thanks.

When I play my music, loud, like I normally do and lightly put my finger on the 12" coax P Audio driver, I feel it moves quite a bit. I hardly think that a BG Neo 10 would move nearly as much.

Rocket Ronny

Yeah, but your 12" coaxial driver is likely not high pass filtered. So it is still reacting to wavelengths below 200Hz. If you put a filter on it so that it is not trying to play the lower wavelengths then it will hardly move.

Tyson

Yeah, but your 12" coaxial driver is likely not high pass filtered. So it is still reacting to wavelengths below 200Hz. If you put a filter on it so that it is not trying to play the lower wavelengths then it will hardly move.

Speaking of putting an in-line filter - putting one between your preamp and amp has a very interesting affect, it actually increases dynamics in the midrange, like a LOT.  I suspect its because when you filter the bass out of the signal before it gets to your midrange amp, that amp is now able to put ALL it's power into the mids and zero power is wasted on the bass signal at all. 

WC

So with the bottom bass unit are we talking the M165s that sell for $30 or the ones for $109?

Danny Richie

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So with the bottom bass unit are we talking the M165s that sell for $30 or the ones for $109?

The standard M165's are indeed only $30 a piece. And they work pretty well as open baffle woofers and can easily play up to ranges above the tweeter crossover point. They are used as the lower range drivers in the NX-Otica and NX-Treme models.

The M165NQ drivers are the purpose built mid-bass drivers for open baffle applications and they are $109 a piece.

WC

So for just covering from ~40 Hz to 200 Hz to crossover to the Neo10 the standard M165s would work just fine, since the NX-Otica and NX-Treme use them in that capacity? This bottom bass unit seems to be a more economical way of using the Super -mini top section, especially for someone that has a woodshop (no flat pack) and amps and crossover that I could use for this bass unit. So $180 for the drivers plus misc wire and stuff.

Captainhemo

So for just covering from ~40 Hz to 200 Hz to crossover to the Neo10 the standard M165s would work just fine, since the NX-Otica and NX-Treme use them in that capacity? This bottom bass unit seems to be a more economical way of using the Super -mini top section, especially for someone that has a woodshop (no flat pack) and amps and crossover that I could use for this bass unit. So $180 for the drivers plus misc wire and stuff.

Yeah they'll work great but, if you're  wanting  40 out of them, you'll want   to be in a  "smaller" room.    say,  12' -13'  feet wide.    If  you go much larger, they are going to roll off  earlier.
Also, be  sure to brace the  cabinet well and I'd recommend using  no-rez on  any  flat  areas between   braces.

jay

davidwat

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At what crossover point will a bass unit need to be attached (time aligned ??) to the Super minis? Or is that a completely ignorant question?

Danny Richie

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At what crossover point will a bass unit need to be attached (time aligned ??) to the Super minis? Or is that a completely ignorant question?

They would cross to the lower woofers at 200Hz.

A 200Hz wavelength is five and a half feet long. So even if the woofers (side loaded) are 6" back (it wouldn't even be that much really) then that is not very much of a phase rotation. That is only about a 10 degree phase rotation.

I would like to have an amp built with an adjustable high pass and low pass filter, phase control, and gain control. Then you can do anything you want with the lower woofers even roll off the bottom end to blend with servo subs.

WC

Yeah they'll work great but, if you're  wanting  40 out of them, you'll want   to be in a  "smaller" room.    say,  12' -13'  feet wide.    If  you go much larger, they are going to roll off  earlier.
Also, be  sure to brace the  cabinet well and I'd recommend using  no-rez on  any  flat  areas between   braces.

jay

I will take what I can get. I will be crossing over to a swarm of subs so I am somewhat flexible in that regard. My room is L-shaped. The speakers will go in the short part of the L which is 11'-6" wide. They will be facing into the large part of the room.

Captainhemo

I will take what I can get. I will be crossing over to a swarm of subs so I am somewhat flexible in that regard. My room is L-shaped. The speakers will go in the short part of the L which is 11'-6" wide. They will be facing into the large part of the room.

In  my room,  right around  12'  wide,  I was   getting   down  to that  40 hz  range  with the  Otica's  on their own.

Nice thing is , if you  side load  the  drivers,  you'll likely be able to keep   slim 6.25"   front profile  all the way  down  :)

jay