What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?

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harley.guy07

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What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« on: 8 Jun 2019, 03:11 am »
I remember when i bought my M3 TS's I spoke with Clayton at length about my system with them and he liked that I was using a Pass Labs power amp and said many owners loved his speakers with Pass amps like I now do. He also mentioned a company called Red Dragon Audio that he said sounded very good with them and were small and efficient. I still see there web site but do not hear too much about them any more. Where they not reliable? or was there just better options out there that were found with these speakers. I myself was not looking to change amps as my Pass will probably go with me to the grave because I love Nelsons designs and sound but it was just something i was wondering since they used a Pascal class D amp and seemed rather interesting in their design.

CSI

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #1 on: 8 Jun 2019, 03:23 am »
For what it's worth, I bought a pair of Red Dragons at the same time I bought my Spatials. They are great amps with these speakers and they draw very little power at idle so you can leave them on 24/7. I also have a Nelson Pass designed amp (First Watt F-7) which is a better amp but less power and more $. It would appear that the Red Dragons are out of production, judging by the web site. Too bad, because they really are exceptional amps. I use the Red Dragons when the weather is warm or I am feeling extra green (and/or nervous about the electric bill). Otherwise, the F-7 is my go-to amp.

harley.guy07

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #2 on: 8 Jun 2019, 03:32 am »
Yeah i really like the Kitchen amps Nelson makes like the F-7 amp you have and the amps built around the SIT transister. Would love to hear how they compare to his more mainstream Pass Labs stuff that I own. With the Spatial's being Rather sensitive I would love to hear what the 3 different SIT amps sound like on my speakers. or any of the Kitchen amps he makes in the First Watt brand. Even though Pass Labs now is the supplier for First Watt I still likes how he keeps the company more like a DIY crowd type of thing. I bought my X150.5 back when i had Dynaudio's which are power hogs otherwise I probably would have looked harder at First Watt since i know have my M3"s

harley.guy07

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #3 on: 8 Jun 2019, 03:46 am »
For what it's worth, I bought a pair of Red Dragons at the same time I bought my Spatials. They are great amps with these speakers and they draw very little power at idle so you can leave them on 24/7. I also have a Nelson Pass designed amp (First Watt F-7) which is a better amp but less power and more $. It would appear that the Red Dragons are out of production, judging by the web site. Too bad, because they really are exceptional amps. I use the Red Dragons when the weather is warm or I am feeling extra green (and/or nervous about the electric bill). Otherwise, the F-7 is my go-to amp.

Quick question? I know this is a Spatial Audio forum so i will keep it short. What made you pick the F-7 over all the other options on the table at First Watt. One of these days I would love to score a First Watt amp for my lower volume critical and emotionally charged listening an would love an owners take on this

CSI

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #4 on: 8 Jun 2019, 04:28 pm »
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CSI

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #5 on: 8 Jun 2019, 04:33 pm »
Plenty of power for my spatial at my normal (not super loud) listening levels. Price and great reviews played a large role. Dick Olsher is a reviewer I really respect.

harley.guy07

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #6 on: 8 Jun 2019, 06:27 pm »
Plenty of power for my spatial at my normal (not super loud) listening levels. Price and great reviews played a large role. Dick Olsher is a reviewer I really respect.

All good reasons, what pre and dac do you use with them?

Whitestix

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #7 on: 12 Jun 2019, 10:16 pm »
I demo'd the Red Dragon with my TS speakers amp and after a while found them lifeless, which has been my experience with ever new Class D amps.  My M4TM, however, with their 11 ohm impedance, are driven to great pleasure with my McCormack DNA .05 SS amp, but the speakers sound demonstrably better with my Don Sachs KT88-based tube amp... a drastic improvement over the McCormack amp.  Your speakers have much lower impedance so tube amps might not work for you as they do with my upgraded speakers.  My best advice it to send your TS speakers back for the upgrade the the Triode Masters variant. It was a potent improvement in SQ, particularly in the the LF response and the speakers hence become very tube friendly. 

CSI

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #8 on: 6 Jul 2019, 10:02 pm »
All good reasons, what pre and dac do you use with them?
Sorry, I just now caught up with your question. I use a Vinnie Rossi LIO configured as a preamp with the built-in DAC 2.0. I also use a Schitt Gungnir DAC in my system but eventually go back to the LIO DAC 2.0. They are both great but I get a bit more of a coherent soundstage with the LIO DAC.

sumoking

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #9 on: 6 Jul 2019, 10:11 pm »
The Cherry amps are an amazing combination!
And for a very reasonable price!
Tommy is running a summer sale as well.
My Cherry Desktop Mono Blocks with the M3TS are
an awesome combination.
Cheers.
Bill...
« Last Edit: 7 Jul 2019, 10:19 pm by sumoking »

Spatial Audio

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #10 on: 7 Jul 2019, 10:50 am »
For a Class D amp, the Cherry amps are an amazing combination!
And a very reasonable price!
Tommy is running a summer sale as well.
My Cherry Desktop Mono Blocks with the M3TS are
an awesome combination.
Cheers.

I have had a pair of the Cherry Desktop amps in listening room No. 2 for several months now and I have been very impressed. They are the best sounding amps we have tested under $3000. I would not have guessed they were Class D. I think it is high time we drop the emphasis on the class of amp circuit, as the lines are becoming blurred by many different and good sounding approaches. Tommy definitely has something special with his design as others have noted. They certainly mate with my speaker designs exceptionally well.

Clayton
www.spatialaudio.us




poseidonsvoice

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Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #11 on: 7 Jul 2019, 01:26 pm »
..I think it is high time we drop the emphasis on the class of amp circuit, as the lines are becoming blurred by many different and good sounding approaches. Tommy definitely has something special with his design as others have noted. They certainly mate with my speaker designs exceptionally well.

Clayton
www.spatialaudio.us

Agreed. But if you look closely and particularly if the item has been measured either by a 3rd party or in this case Tommy, you will clearly note the differences and pick the better performing amp. The devil is in the details and it takes an evaluation of numerous measurements to be able to discern the differences. The easier way is listening of course but the problem is the tremendous amount of sighted bias as such.

I became Class agnostic a long time ago. And I own Class A, AB and D.

Best,
Anand.

RonN5

Re: What Happened to Red Dragon on Spatials?
« Reply #12 on: 7 Jul 2019, 02:12 pm »
Agreed. But if you look closely and particularly if the item has been measured either by a 3rd party or in this case Tommy, you will clearly note the differences and pick the better performing amp. The devil is in the details and it takes an evaluation of numerous measurements to be able to discern the differences. The easier way is listening of course but the problem is the tremendous amount of sighted bias as such.

I became Class agnostic a long time ago. And I own Class A, AB and D.

Best,
Anand.


I'm more about live and let live....so for those that feel the numbers should be the final determinant...so be it.  And for those that care more about how it sounds...ok for them....and for those that care about how it makes them feel...sound, looks, numbers, etc.,  also ok.

Personally, I'm not so concerned about sighted bias because when I hit the switch and it sounds good and gives me a positive emotional response, the numbers, the looks, the reviews, the comments, etc., while important, take a second position.

Again, live and let live.  What is interesting is that Clayton, who obviously gets to try a lot of different equipment, is willing to make a strong statement about class d in general and about Tommy Obrien's amplifier being an amplifier that sounds really good on Clayton's open baffle loudspeakers.

Should this mean anything to anyone else?  Only that that Tommy's amps are getting a lot of positive feedback and with a 30 day return policy, certainly merit serious consideration from anyone who is looking to make a change.

Clayton didn't say why he called them the "best sounding amps we have tested under $3k"...but from my own experience...live music sound has a number of differences from home audio sound...for me, two of the key aspects are clarity and immediacy...Tommy's amps take you closer to the live music sound.

Finally, one more thought...this is a Spatial Audio thread...if you have never heard one of Clayton's loudspeakers, you are missing something really special and you owe it to yourself to give them a listen!