Continuous Operation

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CSI

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #20 on: 7 Jun 2019, 05:28 pm »
I, too, discovered the benefits of continuous operation when doing audio shows years ago. Now I leave my home rig fired up 24/7 whenever possible. Exception: extended vacations - don't want to tempt fate or bad luck. My Schitt gear (Vidar amp, Gungnir DAC) definitely sounds better this way. Vidar only draws 60 watts (like a porch light) and the DAC a lot less. The Vidar manual even says "...leave it on all the time if you like". I don't leave my sources on. My preamp is a Vinnie Rossi LIO which operates on ultracapacitor power so it is always charged up (and therefore always on "stand-by"). My other amp is a First Watt F-7 which is pure Class A so leaving it on all the time would NOT be very green. It sounds just fine with 30 minutes of warm up. For those who are super concerned about the environment, consider Class D amps. My Red Dragons only pulled a couple of watts at idle and definitely sounded best when left on.

James Tanner

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #21 on: 8 Jun 2019, 10:00 am »
We had a direct lightning strike on our house (Anza, CA) in 2014.  The lightning struck our anemometer mast, which is attached to the peak of the roof adjacent to the room with our gear.  The lightning took out anything connected with an HDMI cable and also the amp in the subwoofer.  Other gear was OK.  Emotiva and Hsu Research were very helpful about repairs, Samsung (TV) not at all.    I've been urged to get a surge protector.  A surge protector may prevent ordinary line surges, but it's my understanding that no surge protector will protect against lightning.

Hi

Bryston BIT's use Power surge protection using Series Mode Surge Suppression rather than MOV’s

The Bryston BIT power products use the finest, most elaborate surge suppression technology available. Series Mode Surge Suppression does not shunt the spike to ground like MOV’s do, and therefore the ground is infinitely more stable in a BIT power device.

Additionally, most MOV-based surge suppression units allow as much as 300 volts through to the protected components, easily enough to do substantial damage, where as BIT surge suppression has clamping voltage onset of around 2V above peak nominal voltage. BIT units are built to meet 6000 volts, 3000 amps at 1000 repeats standard.

Calypte

Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #22 on: 8 Jun 2019, 04:33 pm »
Hi

Bryston BIT's use Power surge protection using Series Mode Surge Suppression rather than MOV’s

The Bryston BIT power products use the finest, most elaborate surge suppression technology available. Series Mode Surge Suppression does not shunt the spike to ground like MOV’s do, and therefore the ground is infinitely more stable in a BIT power device.

Additionally, most MOV-based surge suppression units allow as much as 300 volts through to the protected components, easily enough to do substantial damage, where as BIT surge suppression has clamping voltage onset of around 2V above peak nominal voltage. BIT units are built to meet 6000 volts, 3000 amps at 1000 repeats standard.

Sorry -- what's "MOV?" 

Off topic: I visited T.H.E. Show in Long Beach, CA, yesterday, and I met Gary Dayton at the Bryston demo.  Gary was very personable and I had an interesting chat with him.  Alas, Bryston is sharing the room with other products (the room is hosted by Bryston's dealer from West Covina), and they didn't have any of the Bryston speakers.  I must say that the speakers (Eggleston) that were hooked up to the Bryston monoblocks were excellent. 

Correction: Covina, not West Covina.

James Tanner

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #23 on: 8 Jun 2019, 06:30 pm »
Sorry -- what's "MOV?" 

Off topic: I visited T.H.E. Show in Long Beach, CA, yesterday, and I met Gary Dayton at the Bryston demo.  Gary was very personable and I had an interesting chat with him.  Alas, Bryston is sharing the room with other products (the room is hosted by Bryston's dealer from West Covina), and they didn't have any of the Bryston speakers.  I must say that the speakers (Eggleston) that were hooked up to the Bryston monoblocks were excellent. 

Correction: Covina, not West Covina.

HI

MOV is a big resistor.

Glad you enjoyed the show!

james

charmerci

Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #24 on: 8 Jun 2019, 11:12 pm »
I've been urged to get a surge protector.  A surge protector may prevent ordinary line surges, but it's my understanding that no surge protector will protect against lightning.
Well, unless you can get one that will stop 100 million volts and 100,000 amps from getting into your system!   :lol:

Calypte

Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #25 on: 11 Jun 2019, 03:59 am »
HI

MOV is a big resistor.

Glad you enjoyed the show!

james

Maybe I'm missing something.  I don't see info in the ads for various surge protectors and power conditioners (not necessarily the same thing, are they?) to tell me what technology they use.  I assume a $300 protector is less capable than a $3000 protector.  My system consists of fourteen components.  This includes the subwoofer, the OLED TV, and the satellite box.  I checked with the manufacturer of my five-channel amp (Emotiva -- sorry!), and they told me it would draw 15 amps if all channels were going full tilt.  I won't get close to that in my current set-up, of course, especially since my current speakers (Hsu Research) are very efficient.   But it's always possible I could go back to Maggies.   The amp is currently plugged into its own household circuit, separate from the other components.  So if I get a surge protector/conditioner that has, say, 12 ea 120 volt outlets, how many components can I actually plug into it?  I assume a phono stage (two) and the Bryston BDP-pi draw very little current, but I'm not so sure about the pre-amp, PC, and turntables (two, including Linn LP12 with Lingo 4).

Edited to add: I've looked at my electrical panel.  The relevant circuits are 15A.
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2019, 05:25 am by Calypte »

James Tanner

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #26 on: 11 Jun 2019, 12:23 pm »
Hi

Generally

Source components draw very little amperage so its really the amplifiers that take up most of the power draw.  I usually tell people to add up all the amperages from all there components and under normal use get a power conditioner that is at least 2/3rds that rating.

Also we have found that you are better to err on the conservative side when it comes to Isolation transformers like the BIT.  Many power conditioners use the same rating as the power - whereas in the BIT we use double the rating for each voltage.  For example our 20 amp BIT transformer is actually rated for 40 amps.

james

PS - I can send you a much more detailed whitepaper on the BIT if you email me - jamestanner@bryston.com.

James Tanner

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #27 on: 11 Jun 2019, 12:27 pm »
Here is something I put together a while back that may help.

Bryston BIT Isolation Transformer Motivation

The concern Bryston had with a lot of power line conditioners available in the market was that many of them could restrict the current available to the amplifier. An amplifier can draw very high peak current, and wants to 'see' a very low impedance high current source from the power line. In fact, we even stated in our owners manuals not to plug our amplifiers into power conditioners. The Transformer based line conditioners we tested were too small to supply the peak current required and many of them were just Filters and did not provide Isolation -(Isolation means there is no mechanical connection between the outside power grid and your inside system power supply).

Also most of the surge protection was done using MOV’s, which are sacrificial and eventually will be destroyed with repeated spikes. Other issues with these MOVs is that they allow much more voltage through before they reacted (typically 300 volts and higher) and they shunt the voltage spikes to ground.

So we decided to try and develop a powerline Conditioner, Isolation and Protection unit that would not have the restrictions of the many units currently on the market from an amplifier performance perspective.

Benefits of Bryston BIT Power Isolation Units:

Benefit #1: Very low source impedance and high current for the power amplifier
BRYTSTON  power isolation units present low impedance to any electronic device that is connected to them. A Single 20 amp BIT PIU has an output impedance of 0.2 ohms and can deliver 400 amp peaks (instantaneous current). The 100 amp unit only has .04 Ohms of output impedance. A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current from a 120 volt line (1200VA) but may demand up to 50 amp instantaneous peaks. The standard residential wall receptacle can't supply the 50 amp peaks because they typically have higher nominal impedance. A BIT 20 amp PIU plugged into the same wall plug can supply these peak current requirements quite easily.

Benefit #2: Power surge protection using Series Mode Surge Suppression rather than MOV's
The BIT power products use the finest, most elaborate surge suppression technology available. Series Mode Surge Suppression does not shunt the spike to ground like MOV's do, and therefore the ground is infinitely more stable in a BIT power device. Additionally, most MOV-based surge suppression units allow as much as 300 volts through to the protected components, easily enough to do substantial damage, where as BIT surge suppression has clamping voltage onset of around 2V above peak nominal voltage. BIT units are built to meet 6000 volts, 3000 amps at 1000 repeats standard.

Benefit #3: Total isolation from outside power grid
BIT power products provide isolation through its finest designed toroidal transformer between the outside power grid and the devices being protected. Such isolation helps to reject external noise sources such as motors, lights, and dimmers commonly found in the home environment. BIT power products provide noise filtering at a range from approximately 2000Hz to over 1MHz – other regular transformer based products do not start operating until nearly 10,000 Hz.

Benefit #4: High Power Capability
There are 15 models of BIT power products available ranging from 15 amps to 100 amps and 120/240 Volts.

Benefit# 5: Low Noise
Bryston BIT products utilize ‘LONO’ (Low Noise) transformer design technology that eliminates audible noise in the power transformer regardless of line conditions, DC offset and over-voltage. BIT products perform at the NC10 level measured on the standard NC (Noise Criteria) – which makes them suitable for use in very quiet environments such as professional recording and broadcast studios.

Benefit # 6: Cleaner Power
Bryston BIT products utilize “NBT” (Narrow Bandwidth Technology) to attenuate differential and common-mode noise without external circuits or components, and starting at a lower corner frequency (2Khz) than other systems. The BIT result is startling – see press and user comments!

Benefit # 7: AVR (optional automatic voltage regulation)
The new feature is Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR). The AVR would make sure that the output voltage of the unit stays uniform within an acceptable range when the input voltage is either increased from or dropped below the acceptable range.The purpose is to keep the output voltage uniform when the input voltage varies over a wide range from 130V to 95V for the North American models and 260V to 190V for the International models and to shut the system down if the input voltage goes above 135V or below 90V for North American models and above 270V or below 180 for the International models.

James Tanner,
Bryston
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2019, 04:13 pm by James Tanner »

Pundamilia

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #28 on: 11 Jun 2019, 04:01 pm »
Thanks, James. Very clearly presented, if not compelling.

Calypte

Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #29 on: 11 Jun 2019, 04:36 pm »
James, is this the white paper that you've just posted?

Edited to add: What about wall-warts?  Most line conditioners -- including Bryston's -- provide very little space for wall-wart power adapters, which often like to spread themselves over two or more power outlets.

G E

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #30 on: 11 Jun 2019, 04:46 pm »
Here is something I put together a while back that may help.

Bryston BIT Isolation Transformer Motivation

The concern Bryston had with a lot of power line conditioners available in the market was that many of them could restrict the current available to the amplifier. An amplifier can draw very high peak current, and wants to 'see' a very low impedance high current source from the power line. In fact, we even stated in our owners manuals not to plug our amplifiers into power conditioners. The Transformer based line conditioners we tested were too small to supply the peak current required and many of them were just Filters and did not provide Isolation -(Isolation means there is no mechanical connection between the outside power grid and your inside system power supply).

Also most of the surge protection was done using MOV’s, which are sacrificial and eventually will be destroyed with repeated spikes. Other issues with these MOVs is that they allow much more voltage through before they reacted (typically 300 volts and higher) and they shunt the voltage spikes to ground.

So we decided to try and develop a powerline Conditioner, Isolation and Protection unit that would not have the restrictions of the many units currently on the market from an amplifier performance perspective.

Benefits of Bryston BIT Power Isolation Units:

Benefit #1: Very low source impedance and high current for the power amplifier
BRYTSTON  power isolation units present low impedance to any electronic device that is connected to them. A Single 20 amp BIT PIU has an output impedance of 0.2 ohms and can deliver 400 amp peaks (instantaneous current). The 100 amp unit only has .04 Ohms of output impedance. A typical 200 watt audio power amplifier demands 10 amps RMS current from a 120 volt line (1200VA) but may demand up to 50 amp instantaneous peaks. The standard residential wall receptacle can't supply the 50 amp peaks because they typically have higher nominal impedance. A BIT 20 amp PIU plugged into the same wall plug can supply these peak current requirements quite easily.

Benefit #2: Power surge protection using Series Mode Surge Suppression rather than MOV's
The BIT power products use the finest, most elaborate surge suppression technology available. Series Mode Surge Suppression does not shunt the spike to ground like MOV's do, and therefore the ground is infinitely more stable in a BIT power device. Additionally, most MOV-based surge suppression units allow as much as 300 volts through to the protected components, easily enough to do substantial damage, where as BIT surge suppression has clamping voltage onset of around 2V above peak nominal voltage. BIT units are built to meet 6000 volts, 3000 amps at 1000 repeats standard.

Benefit #3: Total isolation from outside power grid
BIT power products provide isolation through its finest designed toroidal transformer between the outside power grid and the devices being protected. Such isolation helps to reject external noise sources such as motors, lights, and dimmers commonly found in the home environment. BIT power products provide noise filtering at a range from approximately 2000Hz to over 1MHz – other regular transformer based products do not start operating until nearly 10,000 Hz.

Benefit #4: High Power Capability
There are 15 models of BIT power products available ranging from 15 amps to 100 amps and 120/240 Volts.

Benefit# 5: Low Noise
Bryston BIT products utilize ‘LONO’ (Low Noise) transformer design technology that eliminates audible noise in the power transformer regardless of line conditions, DC offset and over-voltage. BIT products perform at the NC10 level measured on the standard NC (Noise Criteria) – which makes them suitable for use in very quiet environments such as professional recording and broadcast studios.

Benefit # 6: Cleaner Power
Bryston BIT products utilize “NBT” (Narrow Bandwidth Technology) to attenuate differential and common-mode noise without external circuits or components, and starting at a lower corner frequency (2Khz) than other systems. The BIT result is startling – see press and user comments!

Benefit # 7: AVR (optional automatic voltage regulation)
The new feature is Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR). The AVR would make sure that the output voltage of the unit stays uniform within an acceptable range when the input voltage is either increased from or dropped below the acceptable range.The purpose is to keep the output voltage uniform when the input voltage varies over a wide range from 130V to 95V for the North American models and 260V to 190V for the International models and to shut the system down if the input voltage goes above 135V or below 90V for North American models and above 270V or below 180 for the International models.

James Tanner,
Bryston


James-

Is any of this technology in your later 28 Squared Amps?

g e

James Tanner

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #31 on: 11 Jun 2019, 04:58 pm »
James, is this the white paper that you've just posted?

Edited to add: What about wall-warts?  Most line conditioners -- including Bryston's -- provide very little space for wall-wart power adapters, which often like to spread themselves over two or more power outlets.

Hi

No the whitepaper was on Bryston speakers.

Wall-warts?

james

James Tanner

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Re: Continuous Operation
« Reply #32 on: 11 Jun 2019, 05:00 pm »
James-

Is any of this technology in your later 28 Squared Amps?

g e

Hi

Yes the #1 benefit is used in the 7B, 14B and 28B's.

james