NuPrime Amp Comparison

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rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #60 on: 4 Mar 2019, 08:49 pm »
I think it is an upgrade from STA-9 to Ref 18.

benma

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #61 on: 11 Apr 2019, 11:01 am »
Did anyone compare the Reference 20 mono blocks with ST-10M mono blocks?
Would it be wiser to get two second hand Reference 20 mono blocks in mint condition for the same money than two new ST-10M mono blocks?

benma

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #62 on: 11 Apr 2019, 11:13 am »
P.S.

I've auditioned the ST-10M mono blocks and in general I liked them. My only complaint is the lack of highest detail and dynamics in the treble area. Are the Reference 20s better in that?

My speakers: Dynaudio Contour 30

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #63 on: 12 Apr 2019, 12:24 am »
The Reference 20 and the Evolution One are better than ST-10/10M.

benma

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #64 on: 12 Apr 2019, 08:09 am »
Thank you

Arlequen

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #65 on: 14 Jun 2019, 11:37 am »
The Reference 20 and the Evolution One are better than ST-10/10M.

Hello Rusty .. since I'm trying two new Reference 20 .. this is their first sounding week .. and I can choose for them or for the Evolution One .. could you tell me how much this new Evo is improving compared to the Ref. 20?
Well .. to be clearer .. I pay half price for the Ref. 20 (new but sold as demo units) while the new Evo is full price .. apart a little discount .. so I'm investigating about if the kinda double price is worthing
Thanks in advance for the reply

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #66 on: 14 Jun 2019, 11:53 am »
Performance is subjective, especially at this high level.  All I can tell you is that Evo Amp is a newer design (for details please refer to the product page) and everything else is just better than Ref 20.
Keep in mind that Ref 20 is an incredible amp, and there is no particular weakness. So Evo Amp is just better in every way.
Is it worth the extra cost, that's subjective.

Some people drink away a few thousand $ a year in wine, take a vacation, or my online gaming pals spend a few thousand $ per year for the thrill of being the best, so it is a personal choice you have to make.

Arlequen

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #67 on: 14 Jun 2019, 12:34 pm »
Keep in mind that Ref 20 is an incredible amp, and there is no particular weakness. So Evo Amp is just better in every way.

Thank you Rusty.
I quoted your sentence in an interesting part.
In your knowledge where and what I gain with the new Evo One?
By my small experience with the Ref. 20 I greatly appreciated the soundstage  a bit wider deepest and taller than the one obtained with my Parasound Halo JC1 and the Primare A32 I'm using from a year .. and the tonal neutrality... as good as from the other amps used.
The weird data is the power of the Ref. 20 compared to the Evo One .. in fact for the first NuForce says 200/8 and 400/4ohms .. for the second 240/8 but 330/4
Could this due to the new toroidal power stage compared to the previous switch module?

My rig .. Pass Labs X1 preamp .. TW Acustic Raven One TT with Graham Phantom II and Benz Micro LP cart. .. Whest Audio PS30RDT SE phono stage

Upgraded combo Philips CDD 882 Transport with Philips DAC 960 ..

Thiel CS 2.4 loudspeakers

Power Cords all Shunyata .. two Venom HC on amps and two Delta NR on pre and phono.

Cardas Golden Reference spkr. cables

Previous amp : Odyssey Audio Stratos .. than Parasound Halo JC1's .. and lately Primare A32


rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #68 on: 14 Jun 2019, 02:10 pm »
Quote
The weird data is the power of the Ref. 20 compared to the Evo One .. in fact for the first NuForce says 200/8 and 400/4ohms .. for the second 240/8 but 330/4

Some basic about power, current and voltage
V = I * R
P = V * I = V square / R
So, the basic assumption is that  when the impedance R is half, then power is double. 
I think so far everyone understand this elementary math :).
But in reality that's not always the case.

Let's use Ref 20 as the example:
200W at 8 Ohm is the spec for the amp.  400W @ 4 Ohm is the expected power if the power supply AND the amplifier are designed to scale up.  So far so good.   Now let's consider other alternatives.  What if we increase the capability of the amp to get more power at 8 Ohm.
Evolution One has 240W @ 8Ohm, better.  Could we have also increase the power of the amp and power supply to deliver 480W @ 4 Ohm ? Sure, but that would compromise the sound quality where we have to alter the design.   

Therefore, the overall power of Evo One has increased for most speakers (whose nominal impedance .  In all practical purpose, nobody really listen at max power, the typical listening power is less than 100W. 

Arlequen

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #69 on: 14 Jun 2019, 02:30 pm »
Got it! .. Thanks
Theorically on my Thiel CS 2.4 the Ref. 20 works better than the Evo ..

This is what wrote a famous reviewer about my spkr:

"I estimated the Thiel CS2.4's voltage sensitivity to be slightly higher than both average and specification, at 88dB(B)/2.83V/m.
However, despite Wes Phillips' conjecture that this speaker is not too hard to drive, its impedance plot (fig.1) indicates that the CS2.4 demands a lot of current from amplifiers.
Not only does its impedance drop to 2.73 ohms at 600Hz, but it stays significantly below 4 ohms from 100Hz to 50kHz, and there is a difficult combination of 4.5 ohms magnitude and –45° electrical phase angle at 80Hz.
Thiel CS2.4 owners should make sure they have a good 4 ohm–rated amplifier to drive this speaker."

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #70 on: 14 Jun 2019, 02:44 pm »
Quote
Theorically on my Thiel CS 2.4 the Ref. 20 works better than the Evo ..

I disagreed.  We could be going in circle.  The max power is rather irrelevant as long as you have adequate power.  Anyway, I am happy regardless of what customers buy, as long as it is a NuPrime :)

RafaPolit

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #71 on: 15 Jun 2019, 04:07 pm »
I could recognize JAs review anywhere! He is a genius, and his info is vital to a lot of us that can't hear first hand and need to rely in other people's opinions and measurements.

4 ohms from 100 to 50K is the entire frequency range! Are you sure you copied that correctly? If that is true, these are certainly < 4 Ohm speakers! 600Hz is the very MIDDLE of everything you will be hearing, and that is 2.7Ohms.  Ouch!

Still, let's say all this is true (which I am sure it is, JA knows his stuf better that anyone else I have read in the industry).  You would still be getting 340 W from the Evos, which is probably more than you would usually need.  Would more be better? Sure, but only if everything else is equal.  So, let's say you had the same exact sound (not possible, lets just theorize for a minute) and you could get a 400 instead of 340.  Then yes, for sure it would be better.

But if the sound is less rich, or less detailed, or a bit more colored, or ... you get where I'm going at.  Perhaps it's better to have 340 great sounding Watts, instead of less good 400 W. 

So if there is any chance for you to try them out and judge for yourself, that'd be great.  Still, at double the price, I can assure you they won't be twice as good.  No where near that much in fact.  So if you are happy as is, you could save a lot of money and have both the amps and the $ wine Jason is talking about (or the PC games if you are into that! :) )

Best,
Rafa.

Arlequen

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Re: NuPrime Amp Comparison
« Reply #72 on: 16 Jun 2019, 11:53 am »
Are you sure you copied that correctly? If that is true, these are certainly < 4 Ohm speakers! 600Hz is the very MIDDLE of everything you will be hearing, and that is 2.7Ohms.  Ouch!
Rafa.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/thiel-cs24-loudspeaker-measurements