[jmcpho]

I have been listening to the same gear for over thirty years and finally decided that it is a time for a change.  I am really happy to find a board which has so much information.  I will probably be quiet for the most part and soak all  of the ideas in.  Maybe a question or two......

[FullRangeMan]

Welcome aboard Jmcpho
It must be a great system.

[mresseguie]

Welcome to AC.

There is certainly a lot of information to soak up. Asking questions is more direct and faster. 

Michael

[Wind Chaser]

I have been listening to the same gear for over thirty years and finally decided that it is a time for a change.

So how much money can we help you spend? 

Welcome! 30 years is a long time.   The only thing I’ve managed to do for 30 years + is eat and breath. 

[ArthurDent]

Greetings & Welcome to AC jmcpho   

[Phil A]

Welcome!

[audioengr]

The first decision is whether you want to stay spinning CD's that you own or move your music to a computer or stream from one of the services like Tidal or Qobuz.

The second decision if you want to stream or play local music files from a server or computer is the interface.  You will need to chose USB or Ethernet.  If you have a router near your audio system, then Ethernet is by far the easiest way to achieve great sound quality.

Each of the three options, CD transport (not player, meaning digital output only), local file playback and streaming can all be optimized to achieve great sound quality.  The key to optimizing these includes two things: to use an outboard DAC or Digital-to-Analog Converter and to minimize jitter by selecting quality interfaces, whether S/PDIF coax, USB or Ethernet.  There are a lot of cheap options that give you mediocre sound quality, so you want to avoid these.

By far the cheapest way to great sound quality is to use a CD transport, nothing fancy (like an older OPPO bought on ebay) driving a good reclocker like a Synchro-Mesh and then a decent DAC, maybe with a volume control in it.  This will give you a world-class digital source and cost you around $2500.  Maybe a bit more with the volume control.

Then the next step is to look at amplifiers and speakers.  The best amps are now either vacuum tubes or solid state switching amps.  There are affordable great sounding options for tubes, like the Prima Luna and Arte Forma.  There are great sounding options for Solid State like the Merrill Audio and Wells Audio amps.  Speakers will need to be high-efficiency if you get a tube amp.  This rules out ribbons and electrostatics usually.  You are then selecting open-baffle or closed baffle speakers.  Good speakers can be very expensive and you should reserve the lions share of the cost to them.  I personally like DeVore, Focal, TAD and Zu Audio.  DeVore and Zu are high-efficiency.  Speakers with SPL rating of 92dB and higher are usually considered high-efficiency.

If you are budget-constrained, then by all means look at used gear, including those mentioned above on Audiogon.  Nothing wrong with good used gear, particularly speakers.

Steve N.

[FullRangeMan]

Good post Steve, it will guide many people including myself.

[chitlins-parmigiana]

Nice !

[JLM]

Welcome!

In 30 years:

1.)  Speakers haven't changed a lot, bass has gotten tighter/leaner (what we used to call the European flavor), more ribbon tweeters, more dipole (open baffle) designs, the latest trend is controlled directivity.

2.)  Rooms haven't changed much our understanding has.  Read Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition to gain a basic understanding of in-room acoustics.  Bigger is better, but shape is even more important.  Treatments (mostly absorption) can help, go to GIK here at Audio Circle.  EQ/DSP should only be used as icing on the cake, recommend REW or Dirac Live with the specified calibrated USB mike (if you go fully digital, otherwise look for something like miniDSP SHD).

3.)  Tube amps haven't changed, but solid state has a new game in town: Class D.  Of course old timers pooh pooh it, but is very efficient, light weight (no heat sinks), and can inexpensively built.

4.)  Vinyl has changed much, just some terrifically expensive setups available.

5.)  Digital is where most of the changes have come.  Redbook (16bit/44.1kHz, CD quality) has been joined by higher resolution PCM formats and DSD (the old SACD audio layer) formats.  But 98% of music is still based on analog or Redbook masters, so it's mostly hype IMO.  As mentioned above digital is delivered on disc (getting rare), downloads (about the only way to get high resolution files), or streaming services (Qobuz, Spotify, or Tidal for instance).  So CD players are rare, everyone has gone to eparate DAC's (Digital/Analog Converter) which range from $100 thumb drive sized devices to $10,000+ full components.  But the technology has been quickly changing so best to invest mostly in speakers, room, and amps.

30 years ago R2R technology was prevalent but since delta-sigma has all but taken over (cheaper to manufacturer).  A couple of vendors offer FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) that they can program the sound they want, versus choosing between manufacturer chips.  Transmission of data has options too: optical and coax SPDIF (still around but can't do DSD and have no standards); USB is popular (borrowed from computers but not designed for audio); AES/EBU (a professional standard that can't do DSD, looks like XLR); I2S (a superior format but no pin assignment standards); and ethernet (a computer standard, good quality, but requires a DAC with ethernet input or a converter). 

CD transports are also rare as more and more go to computerized servers to receive and store files.  This is another fast moving technology.  Add to that the required software, which becomes more important to handle the PCM/DSD formats and huge libraries developed largely from file sharing (pirating).  Currently the most popular software is Roon (expensive, but has strong metadata - album cover type information - support).  So lots to learn.  Take care.

[Elizabeth]

Just to point out some of that 30+ year old gear is highly sought after... 

[Freo-1]

I've got a slightly different take on this.


1) Speakers have changed significantly over the past 20 years or so.  Many speakers are now designed using software that helps the designers get a much better (read flatter) response.  The result is that one can get speakers at more reasonable costs that perform quite well.


2) Digital technology has advanced a lot since the 80's.  Today's gear sounds much better than the early digital CD players.  Wireless streaming is now rather common, and the audio quality can rival traditional sources.


3) The current upper end surround sound receivers actually sound pretty darn good for the money.  The surround formats continue to evolve at a steady pace.  If your living space allows for a multi channel setup, it's worth auditioning.  I have been pleasantly surprised at the sonic qualities.


4) Class D amps have come quite far since the original Infinity switching amp from the 70's.  However, they all suffer from a ultrasonic noise problem that requires brick type filtering to address.  You may or may not find this to be an issue. 


5) There has been some unique audio products that really have set the bar going forward.  Starting  with the  Devialet D-Premier, progressing to the Expert/Expert Pro series, these units are simply amazing feats of engineering.  Within the unit, which is the size of a medium pizza box, they have contained a host of digital inputs (Toslink, Coaixal, HDMI, USB, ethernet), analog inputs, a phono input that is among the quietest in the industry, and regular analog high level inputs.  These can all be configured by the user to suit their individual requirements.  The amplifier section has some of the best specs in the industry (-130 db or better noise floor).  What is really unique about the unit is that the voltage is controlled by a class A amp, while the current is supplied by a class d amp.  This eliminates the one bugbear from all other class D amps (ultrasonic noise filtering).  What's even more amazing, if you decide you need more power, just get another unit and re-configure to mono operation.  Starting with the Expert series, there is a feature called Speaker Active Matching (SAM), which allows to speaker to be operated safely below 200 Hz, and extends/flattens out the frequency response.  I could go on with the all the technical enhancements, but you get the idea.  When you consider that you only need one of these instead of a host individual boxes, and can save $ on wire, they are actually a pretty good deal.  They also sound better than just about any other Solid State setup regardless of price.  To bet the performance of these, the cost of the electronics and wire would likely be prohibitive. 


In summary, there has been a lot change over the years.  With digital signal processing, expect changes to continue.




The REAL problem is getting high quality recorded material.  That has largely gotten worse, thanks to loudness wars.  There are some exceptions with modern classical music.   

[jmcpho]

Thank you for all of the replies you are going to be a big help.  Speakers are my sticking point.  I am replacing two Fried Betas/Subwoofers and thinking about going to Floorstanders.  I have a Carver TFM-35 that has been rebuilt and a Belles preamplifier.  I plan to use the amp and pre.  I stream / build my own computers and have ripped my CDs to FLAC.  I am using a nuforce DAC with my wifi but plan on  building a dedicated PC once the speakers get paid off.   I also have a Hafler dh220 amp.

The constraints are that I live in a town house  (putting this in a small 12x14 room) and of course budget.   3,000.00 is what I'm thinking right now. 

The speaker thing is driving me crazy!  So maybe I am not completely starting over but it sure feels like it.

[audioengr]

3.)  Tube amps haven't changed, but solid state has a new game in town: Class D.  Of course old timers pooh pooh it, but is very efficient, light weight (no heat sinks), and can inexpensively built.

I would argue that improvements in capacitors, wiring (OCC silver and copper) and better understanding of power delivery has improved many tube amps, but not all.

With Class-D and the like, there are good ones and poor ones too.

1) Speakers have changed significantly over the past 20 years or so.  Many speakers are now designed using software that helps the designers get a much better (read flatter) response.  The result is that one can get speakers at more reasonable costs that perform quite well.

I have to agree here.  Also, the crossover components and internal wiring is much better with the advent of air-core inductors and Mundorf/V-caps/Duelund caps and OCC copper.  Computer modeling creates not only better crossovers, but better enclosure and driver designs.

3) The current upper end surround sound receivers actually sound pretty darn good for the money.  The surround formats continue to evolve at a steady pace.  If your living space allows for a multi channel setup, it's worth auditioning.  I have been pleasantly surprised at the sonic qualities.

I agree.  My neighbor has an inexpensive Denon receiver and it sounds great now that I added SPDIF iPurifiers to all of the digital inputs from Smart TV, Blu-ray and cable box.  Only $150.   If you don't have this in your HT, you are missing out big time.  Reduces jitter of Dolby Digital and DTS signals and probably multi-channel audio as well.

Steve N.

Steve N.