Full range driver, recommendation..

bladesmith · « **on:** 13 May 2019, 07:14 pm »

I'm going to start a new system into the area of low watt , OB, (single) full range driver system...

Any recommendations on drivers... for a low watt SET amp, maybe 3 to 8 watts of power..?

Thanks..

Folsom · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 May 2019, 09:04 pm »

Rullit would be something I’d want to try first.

bladesmith · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 May 2019, 10:54 pm »

I forgot to mention, $1200.00 for the pair of drivers.. less, if I can.. of, course...
The more I save here, the quicker I can get my amp.

Folsom · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 May 2019, 11:49 pm »

Get the Super 12" Ferrite.

BUT build a baffle step loss filter for it. It has enough efficiency that you'll be able to lose a touch to the corrective filter, and still be able to drive it with a lower powered SET. Although to be honest with the corrective filter I'd go for more like 20w, but 8w would do.

What amp are you looking at? Budget?

That 12" might be able to run in a aperiodic box, which sounds better than ported IMO. At least with a corrective filter.

If you can get do decent measurements on the driver I might be able to give some filter ideas.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 May 2019, 09:21 am »

The Classic10Ferrite is a bargain at $375 also it have a very open sound as OB.
The Ferrites 10/12 bolth work fine in a big Bass Reflex box.
The Audio Nirvana 'Classic 10 FERRITE' ($375/pr) has a test bench frequency response from 33 hz to almost 20,000 hz (varies by temperature). You can expect at least 99 db efficiency in any of our cabinets. It handles 30 watts continuous RMS (normal listening level will be about 1/10 watt). Impedance is 8 ohms. Voice coil is 1.4 inches (35.5mm). Magnet weight is 3.2 lbs. Total weight is 9 lbs. The cone is made of paper. The surround is accordion style and made of treated cloth. The dust cap is a specially coated fabric material. The frame is cast aluminum.

This is a good read:
http://www.glowinthedarkaudio.com/zenith-49cz852.html
This Vintage Zenith is a bargain also if you can find one in good shape.

Folsom · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 May 2019, 05:25 pm »

IMO the bigger the better because it means less high frequency bounce, and more bass from the world's smallest xmax (it works, don't worry). But the 15 is a little spendy and the specs on the 12 I like more. (esp sensitivity on ferrite over alnico)

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 May 2019, 06:03 pm »

Worth to mention the Classic12Ferrite bass has a huge drop at 100Hz.
So avoid these drivers, you will need a helper woofer.
https://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an12classicspecs.jpg
The cheaper Classic10Ferrite bass is much better:
https://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an10classicspecs.jpg
If interested PM me I have a big 180L BR project for this one, CommonSense have his own free projects though.

Folsom · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 May 2019, 07:19 pm »

The classic 10 is good. I recommended the Super 12 which doesn't drop after 100hz.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 May 2019, 07:42 pm »

Do you prefer the Super12 Alnico or Ferrite?

Folsom · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 May 2019, 08:35 pm »

Ferrite in this case. Sensitivity is much higher for the low power amps he wants to use.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 May 2019, 09:16 pm »

Right, sensitivity is first priority in FR drivers, yet they are cheaper than Alnico.

Folsom · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 May 2019, 09:43 pm »

Well, it is when the user wants to use 2-8watts (Decware?)

bladesmith · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 May 2019, 03:11 am »

Let me add this..
Should the system I'm going to develop, begin with the amp or the drivers..?
Should the drivers be bought first or the amp..?

Just saying..

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 May 2019, 03:18 am »

Speakers and amp must match in tech details and even sound synergy, a low Watt amp with a 90dB speaker dont will do a splash in your room, I could do this double choice at the same time.

Folsom · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 May 2019, 03:51 am »

Quote from: bladesmith on 15 May 2019, 03:11 am

Let me add this..
Should the system I'm going to develop, begin with the amp or the drivers..?
Should the drivers be bought first or the amp..?

Just saying..

Well, I think the type of stereo you want really makes it a two part deal.

Do you want it to be SET? SET, and vintage like drivers is a specific genre of audiophile. I commend you for wanting to try it out.

Going higher power in SET is much more expensive. And IMO using small drivers is a recipe for harsher sound without going multi-driver (horns?).

I see no reason not to plan them at the same time.

beowulf · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 May 2019, 05:07 am »

Quote from: Folsom on 13 May 2019, 11:49 pm

Get the Super 12" Ferrite.

BUT build a baffle step loss filter for it. It has enough efficiency that you'll be able to lose a touch to the corrective filter, and still be able to drive it with a lower powered SET. Although to be honest with the corrective filter I'd go for more like 20w, but 8w would do.

What amp are you looking at? Budget?

That 12" might be able to run in a aperiodic box, which sounds better than ported IMO. At least with a corrective filter.

If you can get do decent measurements on the driver I might be able to give some filter ideas.

I understand how bsc would work on a multi driver speaker, but how does that work in a single driver based one - i.e. where there is no crossover and one driver is covering the whole bandwidth?

I've always wondered about that. Thanks!

Folsom · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 May 2019, 06:17 am »

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/303784-baffle-compensate-range.html

bladesmith · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 May 2019, 06:44 am »

It might benefit to have a 20watt amp, vs an 8 watt. If I end up attenuating the upper levels.
I'm not sure.. 🤔🤔

JLM · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 May 2019, 10:32 am »

Speaker or amp first? Don't forget the room. Read Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" to learn how bass behaves in-room and the benefits of using multiple well placed subs to correct inevitable peaks and dips. Adding subs makes single driver and amp selection much easier.

Years ago, before reading Toole, tried hard to be a SET fan but couldn't find an efficient speaker I was happy with. Then, 15 years ago, settled on a floor standing transmission line design using a Fostex F200A driver that's not the most efficient (89 dB/w/m, 8 ohms) but Alnico and has an F3 = 30 Hz raw, so walked away from SET. Along the way learned just how much bass SET fans can acclimate into doing without (it's actually scary). Still have those Brines Acoustic speakers after having Bud Purvine EnABL the drivers (he invented the process). But ended up adding an ambiance (Late Ceiling Splash) tweeters thanks to Duke LeJeune's suggestion that just sits on the floor behind the speakers and a subwoofer to boost bass response.

Norman Tracy · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 May 2019, 03:47 pm »

Hi Bladesmith,

First things first intrigued by your user ID I checked out your gallery and confirmed you are a blade smith. Wow, your knife work is exquisite. I love how that craft-art reaches all the way back through history to before history when humanity first fashioned tools.

How about a recommendation I have not heard, is expensive, and hard to obtain in North America? Perfect right.

I became aware of the Davis 20DE8 just this week from coverage of the 2019 Munich show although it seems to have been introduced some time ago. With Alnico magnet, edge wound aluminum voice coil felted paper cone plus aluminum dome dust cap reminds me of the classic JBL full ranges like the LE8.

http://www.davis-acoustics.com/en/20de8/

https://www.tnt-audio.com/shows/munich12b_e.html