Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables

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benma

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Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« on: 26 Apr 2019, 05:35 pm »
Hello all,
I have Electrocompaniet eci5mk2 amplifier and Dynaudio Contour 30 speakers. Although I like the bass, dynamics and silky sound of my system, I started to miss the details and better soundstage focus. I am thinking about replacing my amp. Well, before doing that I'm thinking about other (cheaper) solutions. Is it possible to get better details and soundstage with replacing speaker cables? My current speaker cables are Audioquest Go4.

I would appreciate any proposal very much.
I apologize for my poor English.

Benjamin

Elizabeth

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Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #1 on: 27 Apr 2019, 05:21 pm »
The best things to 'get better detail and soundstage' and brighten the systems sound are AC power conditioning. AC duplex upgrade. AC powercord upgrade.
These AC things will affect all your components, and should help provide greater detail, and improved upper frequencies. YOU may not even need 'more' upper frequencies. just cleaner sounding!
Ability to find products depends on where you live and what sort of AC plugs are used.

rollo

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Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #2 on: 15 May 2019, 07:38 pm »
  Benjaman the most cost affective change would be speaker cable. Find one with low capacitance. No doubt power conditioning will help clean things up  but can be an expensive task. For a modest investment to get started a new duplex. Furutech GTX Rhodium for you.


charles
 

ricmon

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #3 on: 15 May 2019, 07:45 pm »
This may not be fashionable to the "audiophile" but I have tone controls on my preamp to address this very issue.  Not to mention fine adjustments per recording (bass or treble).  So you may consider trying a preamp with tone controls.

Ric

Steve

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #4 on: 17 May 2019, 01:52 am »
Hello all,
I have Electrocompaniet eci5mk2 amplifier and Dynaudio Contour 30 speakers. Although I like the bass, dynamics and silky sound of my system, I started to miss the details and better soundstage focus. I am thinking about replacing my amp. Well, before doing that I'm thinking about other (cheaper) solutions. Is it possible to get better details and soundstage with replacing speaker cables? My current speaker cables are Audioquest Go4.

I would appreciate any proposal very much.
I apologize for my poor English.

Benjamin

No need to apologize Ben. I am a little confused. The title is brightening the system, but the body is about details and better soundstage focus. A correlation between them is a possibility. I will deal with brightening the system, for little money.

If you wish brightening the system, you could go with paralleling some 14, 16, or even 18 gauge wires to obtain whatever gauge you wish. It is interesting that between one small vs one large gauge wire, the self inductance is rather similar.
 
However, if you parallel several wires together, the inductance lowers and thus more highs. Two wires halves the inductance, 4 wires = 1/4 the inductance, 6 wires in parallel = 1/6th the inductance etc.

Your ACE hardware has door bell wire for cheap etc. Not expensive and allows you to experiment, customize the total gauge to maximize the sonics to your tastes. I used banana pairs so I could add or subtract wires, thus total gauge, when testing. Personally, in my system, I used 12 parallel wires, 5 feet long. More or less might suite you.

Cheers and hope this helps Ben.

steve

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Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #5 on: 23 May 2019, 12:19 pm »
  Benjaman the most cost affective change would be speaker cable. Find one with low capacitance. ..........................
charles
Any speaker cables with low capacitance will have high loop inductance. Which will if anything diminish treble response.

Steve

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #6 on: 23 May 2019, 12:26 pm »
Any speaker cables with low capacitance will have high loop inductance. Which will if anything diminish treble response.

Correct, most speaker wires designed to lower inductance will increase capacitance. My tip is one of the few designs that won't. Paralleling wires while separating the "+/-" leads will dramatically lower inductance while capacitance is just a few picos.

cheers

steve

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Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #7 on: 23 May 2019, 12:35 pm »
Paralleling wires while separating the "+/-" leads will dramatically lower inductance while capacitance is just a few picos.

That must be a typo.

Separating the leads will increase loop inductance and reduce capacitance.  They are opposite sides of the same coin. If one goes up the other goes down.

Steve

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #8 on: 23 May 2019, 01:29 pm »
Paralleling wires while separating the "+/-" leads will dramatically lower inductance while capacitance is just a few picos.

That must be a typo.

Separating the leads will increase loop inductance and reduce capacitance.  They are opposite sides of the same coin. If one goes up the other goes down.

No, there is no loop in speaker wires. Each straight wire has self inductance. Here is a calculator for such.

https://www.easycalculation.com/engineering/electrical/straight-wire-inductor.php

For instance, if we have 12 inches of straight wire, 0,05 inches diameter, the inductance of a straight wire will be
~0,33uh (micro henrys). For diameter of 0,25 inches, ~0,2325uh.

Nordost implements this type design.

Paralleling wires will reduce the self inductance just as paralleling resistors will reduce the resistance. Two wires will reduce the inductance by 2. Two 100k ohm resistors in parallel will yield 50k ohms.

cheers

steve

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Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #9 on: 23 May 2019, 03:13 pm »
Oh dear, oh dear.
Not this again.
That's the wrong formula.
In a cable, current flowing in the opposite direction (in the two conductors) caancled much of the induction.

Steve

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #10 on: 23 May 2019, 07:09 pm »
Oh dear, oh dear.
Not this again.
That's the wrong formula.
In a cable, current flowing in the opposite direction (in the two conductors) caancled much of the induction.

I also thought we had this conversation before. Evidently you still mis-understand the subject. The "+/-" speaker wires are totally separated, so there is no cancellation due to proximity. Cancellation only occurs when two wires are in proximity, as in a cable. For two wires to totally, perfectly cancel, zero inductance, the "+/-" wires would have to occupy the exact same space. Of course this is impossible.

Now, if one has two wires 2 feet apart, there is no cable, no cancellation as the fields are too far apart. Each wire behaves as a single wire; the equation/formula is correct. You have to understand the situation.

Nordost's flat cables follow the same design concept.

The self inductance of a single wire can be reduced by paralleling it with other wires, just as a resistor's ohmage can be reduced by paralleling it with other resistors.

I hope this helps you.

cheers
steve
« Last Edit: 24 May 2019, 03:23 am by Steve »

twitch54

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #11 on: 22 Jul 2019, 06:45 pm »
who's on first ?? ............

anyways, as for 'brightening up the sound' how about addressing your rooms acoustical environment ?

WGH

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #12 on: 22 Jul 2019, 07:03 pm »
Although possibly not any cheaper than a new amp, changing your pre-amp to amp interconnect to a Zenwave D4 would brighten the sound in a good way.

https://zenwaveaudio.com/interconnect/

I'm not familiar with the AudioQuest Go-4 but in my experience changing speaker cables has a lesser effect than interconnects.

RDavidson

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Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #13 on: 22 Jul 2019, 08:23 pm »
D4's won't add brightness. They are, however, the most neutral and revealing IC's I've ever used. But yes, I would look to better IC's also. It's amazing how much of the line level signal is lost, smeared, and altered when using so-so IC's. Speaker cables can make a profound difference too, but I would start with IC's, then speaker cables, then power. I always find power cabling / conditioning to further enhance qualities already existing in one's system. Sometimes it can be subtractive too...so maybe more experimentation is required.

bacobits1

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #14 on: 22 Jul 2019, 09:48 pm »
OP disappeared!
I would also look at PC, outlets and power filters which will add detail.
What is being used as sources?  Primary source, Tt, DAC, CD?
Most want to kill brightness.
That amp was reviewed as warm sounding.

WGH

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #15 on: 22 Jul 2019, 10:10 pm »
D4's won't add brightness.

Your are correct, I should have clearer. Perhaps clarity with extended highs would have been a better choice. The D3's are also excellent at a more affordable price point.

audioengr

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #16 on: 22 Jul 2019, 10:49 pm »
Clarity is more a function of the source.  What source are you using?

As for separating speaker cables, this is a bad idea from the get-go because it will kill the dynamics due to high inductance.  If you use really large gauge wire to lower self-inductance, then you will get bad effects from non-uniform current density in the speaker wires.  The best scenario is a balance of optimal wire gauge and mutual inductance, either with multiple smaller twisted-pairs or laminated ribbons etc..

I was at a trade show once and noticed that one exhibitor had put two hanging wires on the back of the speakers to bridge between the tweeter and woofer circuit in the speaker to use a single speaker cable.  Sounded bad.  When I simply twisted the two 10" wires together and re-attached to the binding posts, the sound got much more clear and dynamic.  The exhibitor was an idiot and was deaf to boot.

Steve N.

Bob2

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Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #17 on: 23 Jul 2019, 01:19 am »
This may not be fashionable to the "audiophile" but I have tone controls on my preamp to address this very issue.  Not to mention fine adjustments per recording (bass or treble).  So you may consider trying a preamp with tone controls.

Ric
+1

Mike in NC

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #18 on: 18 Aug 2019, 02:18 am »
This may not be fashionable to the "audiophile" but I have tone controls on my preamp to address this very issue.  Not to mention fine adjustments per recording (bass or treble).  So you may consider trying a preamp with tone controls.

Ric

Yes -- or add a Schiit Loki or something similar, if your amp has a tape loop. It's supposed to be a lovely amp, I've heard.

Addressing this issue with cables might make make some recordings better but others too bright.

That said, for a while I used Anticables, and I found them a bit on the bright side of neutral and otherwise very good. They also are relatively inexpensive.
« Last Edit: 18 Aug 2019, 05:07 am by Mike in NC »

Bob Stark

Re: Brightening the system's sound with speaker cables
« Reply #19 on: 18 Aug 2019, 04:54 am »
Hey Ben,

I would try using Spleltz Anticables to see what clearer cables can do for your sound.  I used these for over 6 years trying to find a better sounding cable.  I bought used sets that went for as much as $1400 new (much less used) including many highly reviewed sets.  Always returned to the Anticables until I heard a pair of MG Planus III cables.  They were considerably better sounding but were over $1400 new.  The Anticables are very fine sounding cables you can get for about $80 for a new 8 ft. pair.  From the MG's, I went to Amadi Maddie Signature and then Cerious Technologies Graphene Extreme.  Both of the last 2 cables were about $650-700 new. 

Bob