Audioquest Niagara 7000

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jeffreybehr

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Audioquest Niagara 7000
« on: 19 Apr 2019, 07:23 pm »
I finally received this morning, after Expona, the evaluation-program Niagara 7000 Low-Z Noise-Dissipation System, hereafter the 7000 or just p-con.. I was rather surprised to see the packaging:




I've never been willing to try to compare P-cons because my older equipment stand didn't have an empty shelf.. I configured the rebuilt one...

...to be more flexible.. The 7000 will go onto the 2nd-bottom shelf, and switching cables will be relatively easy; it even has a 20-amp power inlet, same as my BPT 3.5 Ultra.

More later; I have to get my strong-armed and -backed buddy to help get it out of the case and into the rack.  (A mutual friend calls our friend Pat the human forklift.   :)  ) 
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2019, 07:51 am by jeffreybehr »

Elizabeth

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #1 on: 19 Apr 2019, 09:04 pm »
Lucky lucky you!  :thumb:

jeffreybehr

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #2 on: 20 Apr 2019, 01:52 am »
Lucky lucky you!  :thumb:

TYVM.  It's not ALL luck!  :-)

Here 'tis resting on double-high Herbies Tenderfoots.


It's in and running.  The package included an AQ Tornado HC 2M powercord; $1200 RR!!!!  I don't know if that's included in the retail package (v. the Evaluation package I received).

In the pic below, the AQ p-cord on the left is the Tornado inlet cord; it's plugged into the very same duplex output (a Furutech GTX-D [R]) the BPT is; the AQ p-cord grabs VERY tightly on the AQ 20-amp IEC inlet.  The LH p-cords drive the Atma-Sphere M-60 poweramps; the next duplex outlet is driving the 11-channel Emotiva poweramps thru a DH Labs Power+ cable and also since I have room, a PS Audio Noise Harvester* (NH).  The next two single cables, silverish with a purple X around them, are current-generation Noetec 11g. NEP-3002 Mk.III...
http://www.soniccraft.com/product_info.php/neotech-nep-3002-mk-iii-p-4992
...driving the Marantz '8805 preamp and Oppo '203 DP...and two NHs.  The RH outlet is powering an outlet strip with the cablebox, flourescent equipment-rack light, and system flat-screen monitor; this trio of noise generators gets an NH plugged into the far end of the outlet strip AND one in the 7000's outlet.  The light and the monitor are not turned on while playing music or movies.

Each of the 7000's outlets has one X-rated cap of at-least-three different sizes wired across it.  There are two large toroidal transformers of some-7-1/2" diameter inside, below a heavy cover that perhaps provides some magnetic shielding.


(I have NOT yet dressed the digital-signal cables away from the powercords.)   :oops:

* Again, my use of many Noise Harvesters is to reduce contamination by noise generated by equipment plugged into the same duplex outlet as equipment drawing power.  For instance, both the highly digital preamp and DP generate EMI on each's p-cords.  When each individual outlet of a duplex is not filtered capacitively and inductively and hence isolated from the other, each piece of equipment 'corrupts' the power seen by the other.  My BPT has capacitive filtering on each dupex outlet, but all six of its duplexes are wired in parallel, so there's little isolation between/among its outlets.  The audience aR-12 I had years ago...
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106120.0
...uses both types of filtering/isolation between EACH outlet.
« Last Edit: 20 Apr 2019, 08:04 pm by jeffreybehr »

Elizabeth

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #3 on: 20 Apr 2019, 02:30 pm »
I was able to borrow a Isotec Noise sniffer from my dealer. The only equipment which 'creates' big (700) noise (in my system) are the CD changers, and the plasma TV. Some equipment REDUCES the noise! and much of the rest add maybe 020 to 035, (as registered on the noise testing device which goes from 000 to 999).
I would play around with the noise sniffers on and off to see if they change the sound.  (in my testing I found EACH PS Audio Noise Sniffer would reduce the noise 150 to 200  I found using too many loses midrange body.. And I actually use a few too many (my setup best is 5 for tonal balance, but I went to 7 of them) to gain clarity! and 'make up' for the midrange body loss with other means, (right now mainly via slightly higher midrange crossover resistors on my Magnepan 20.7
So I would suggest experimenting with the Noise harvester on and off the setup. Because not only do they lower the noise floor, (BLINKING OR NOT BLINKING, they are working 100% of the time!!!) they also change the 'tone' once they are overabundant...
Just my experience with them. And if you are doing a review with the AQ7000... I would want you to be aware of that

jeffreybehr

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #4 on: 20 Apr 2019, 07:29 pm »
I was able to borrow a Isotec Noise sniffer from my dealer. The only equipment which 'creates' big (700) noise (in my system) are the CD changers, and the plasma TV. Some equipment REDUCES the noise! and much of the rest add maybe 020 to 035, (as registered on the noise testing device which goes from 000 to 999).
I would play around with the noise sniffers on and off to see if they change the sound.  (in my testing I found EACH PS Audio Noise Sniffer would reduce the noise 150 to 200  I found using too many loses midrange body.. And I actually use a few too many (my setup best is 5 for tonal balance, but I went to 7 of them) to gain clarity! and 'make up' for the midrange body loss with other means, (right now mainly via slightly higher midrange crossover resistors on my Magnepan 20.7.. So I would suggest experimenting with the Noise harvester on and off the setup. Because not only do they lower the noise floor, (BLINKING OR NOT BLINKING, they are working 100% of the time!!!) they also change the 'tone' once they are overabundant...

Just my experience with them. And if you are doing a review with the AQ7000... I would want you to be aware of that

Thx for the info.. I too have a noise meter, a 'Green Wave Broadband EMI Meter', that I've played with a little.  I found my Epson '5040 projector to generate more noise than anything I tested (and that was only a half-dozen-or-so outlets), and one Noise Harvester absorbed the vast majority of that noise.

I'm not a reviewer in the audio-mag. sense, I'm just an enthusiastic musiclover and hi-end audiofool.  I'm evaluating the 7000 for my own use.  So far, it sounded excellent--but I don't know if those early results were different than with my BPT 3.5-Ultra(1)--while driving just the two-channel electronics. However, adding the Emotiva 11-channel amp (that uses a TWO-conductor p-cord) produced a hum/buzz that sounded like a ground-loop and that I could NOT get rid of, so everything is back to the BPT, at least temporarily.

FWIW the Pelican rolling case and included AQ p-cord are both part of AQ's loaner packages and are not included in the retail package.

Oh ya...AQ's and magazine writers' comments on the TIGHT connections made by the AQ duplex outlets and any 3-wire plug I used in the 7000 are correct.  They're so tight that I learned to regret having to unplug cable from those outlets(2).

(1) I'm pretty sure you're more 'golden-eared' than I am.   :)
(2) My right shoulder has been replaced and it's load-limited, so I ended up many times squeezing around behind my equipment stand and sitting on the floor so I could use my left hand and arm on those plugs.  'TIGHT' is an understatement.
.

jeffreybehr

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #5 on: 21 Apr 2019, 03:55 am »
Sorry to write that the 7000 is going back--I simply couldn't get rid of what sounded like a ground-loop hum/buzz but wasn't.  That means it hummed even with all the input plugs pulled.  Life is too short to be frustrated by problems like these.

About a month or so ago, I stopped using a heavy-duty (12g.) extention cord I had made a few years ago; it had plugged into the p-con and powered two bass amps (and more) on the front wall.  Then my buddy gave back to me a 500-watt Tripp-Lite Isolation Transformer/p-con...
https://www.tripplite.com/isolator-series-120v-500w-isolation-transformer-based-power-conditioner-4-outlets~IS500
...that I then used to feed the two bassamps.  That freed the outlet feeding the extention cord and left six p-cords to plug into six DUPLEX outlets; the other six outlets I filled with PS Audio Noise Harvesters. 

Then, inspired by a lunch conversation with my good-buddy-fellow-audiofool, I got a little brain-whiff*--if I need only six outlets, why not buy a 6-outlet p-con?  Since I enjoyed having an audience aR-12 in my system...
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106120.0
...I looked for an audience aR-6 with Teflon-film caps and found one.  This model has the original Hubbel hospital-grade outlets, but I already own four very-hi-quality Audioquest duplex outlets so don't 'have' to buy new duplex outlets.  All that leaves is a p-cord for it; maybe I'll buy and install an IEC 20-amp inlet to match my 20-amp p-cord, or more probably I'll install a 15-amp IEC inlet and have built a new p-cord made, for which I already have both plugs.  Either way, the quality will be there without high cost.

Why another audience p-con?  For its double-isolation of EACH outlet from all other outlets, which makes surplus a half-dozen Noise Harvesters.

We'll see how this goes.


* Some of us get brain storms; I get brain-whiffs.
   :?
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2019, 07:54 am by jeffreybehr »

Elizabeth

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #6 on: 21 Apr 2019, 12:21 pm »
Do you think it is a transformer buzz inside the case?
Have you discussed it with AudioQuest folks? maybe the unit is defective? Or has become defective after who knows how many trips around everywhere? Maybe they can send you a different one, without the buzz? Anyway, too bad it is not working out.
I would love the chance to hear one, or the PS Audio big boy 20 ... But I am nobody in the audio world.

Folsom

Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #7 on: 21 Apr 2019, 04:42 pm »
Did you try without any of the noise devices plugged in?

toocool4

Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #8 on: 21 Apr 2019, 04:45 pm »
Elizabeth you should contact PS Audio, they are always lending things out.

jeffreybehr

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #9 on: 21 Apr 2019, 07:08 pm »
Do you think it is a transformer buzz inside the case?  Have you discussed it with AudioQuest folks?  Maybe the unit is defective?  Or has become defective after who knows how many trips around everywhere?  Maybe they can send you a different one, without the buzz?  Anyway, too bad it is not working out.  I would love the chance to hear one, or the PS Audio big boy 20 ... But I am nobody in the audio world.

I certainly wasn't specific about the noise problem.  First, my complicated system was (and is, again) quite quiet* driven by the BPT 3.5--no ground-loop hum/buzzes, etc.--with or without the Noise Harvesters.  The system driven by the 7000 was equally quiet until I turned on the Emotiva XPA Gen3 Eleven/1.5s poweramp; doing so created a quite audible 60/120Hz hum/buzz coming from all the surround and ceiling speakers.  Even with ALL eleven signal cables--AQ Red River XLRs...

...unplugged, that noise persisted.  So put another way, merely switching all p-cords from the BPT to the 7000 (and turning on the Emotiva) created the hum/buzz.  The Emotiva uses a 2-pin IEC inlet, so there's no earth to 'lift'; I tried.  I tried earthing its chassis--no change.

So...after considering a mid-level (Teflon caps but not the later, quite-expensive [IMO, of course] wiring, Cardas/audience outlets, 'ground plane', etc.) Audience aR-6, I'm seriously considering a PS Audio P20.  We'll see.

* The system actually is quieter than I think it might be.  With so many components in it--three poweramps totaling 13 channels, two plateamps for the main speakers, two Rythmik subwoofers, a projector,  cablebox, plus, of course, a DP and a complex, HIGHLY digital Marantz '8805 preamp--electronic noise is audible only with one's ear within an inch or so from any speaker grill.  The total noise is inaudible from the listening position.
« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2019, 10:28 pm by jeffreybehr »

Folsom

Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #10 on: 21 Apr 2019, 07:53 pm »
So you didn’t?

jeffreybehr

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #11 on: 21 Apr 2019, 10:28 pm »
So you didn’t?

...didn't what?

Folsom

Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #12 on: 22 Apr 2019, 12:49 am »
Try it without the noise things plugged into it?

Not all line conditioning likes to work together.

jeffreybehr

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Re: Audioquest Niagara 7000
« Reply #13 on: 22 Apr 2019, 01:34 am »
Try it without the noise things plugged into it?

Not all line conditioning likes to work together.

Yes, I tried it without any Noise Harvesters plugged into the p-con.