M3 or maybe M4 for me?

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MONKEYWICKEDMONKEY

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Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #100 on: 21 Sep 2019, 01:42 am »
Ok so I have one last question and I’ll promise not to bug anyone anymore.

Demo’ing these basically wont happen unless I buy them, so I’m trying get the answer to a question.

For those of you who like bassy music, will the M3 replicate the booming 808 as a conventional speaker would? I’m aware it won’t hardly pressurize a room but if I sat in the sweet spot would I get the same effect?

By “booming 808” I’m teferring to Beastie Boys “Brass Monkey”. Hopefully someone here is familiar.

The answer to this basically answers all my questions.

undertowogt1

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #101 on: 21 Sep 2019, 02:09 am »
I think this might be a hard question to answer. For me it is the right amount of bass, for you it might not be

I listen to some Bassy Music For example: Massive attack - Mezzanine, beastie boys, portishead, James Blake. They all sound great to me. It does not really pressurize my room like a BIG sub would. The Bass is NOT boomy, NOT Muddy. The Bass is clean, clear, fast and defined. I know the 808 will sound very nice and defined.
For your consideration I am audio enthusiast and audio video technician so I hear speakers and subs everyday. Still a very hard question for someone else to answer.

I will be home in a few days and I will play a few Beastie Boys Tracks loud, I can let you know more

JackD

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Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #102 on: 21 Sep 2019, 03:59 am »
You keep trying to compare apples to oranges and no matter how many different ways you formulate the same question the answer will be the same.  Bass perception from a box speaker and an OB speaker is different in the same room on the same gear with the same music.  I know that to be true because I have tested it.  In my Family Room system in a room that is 22'x26'x10' I regularly swap between a pair of Nola KO's and M3TM's with the same gear.  Both speakers have similar spec'd bass response but on the same music the bass may reach the same frequency level but the perception of it is different even if they measure the same with a meter.  If you're in a smaller room and anticipate moving to a smaller room and want good bass response that is less likely to disturb neighbors order a pair of Burchardt S400's and try them for 30 days and if they don't work send them back.  If placed between 18-24" of the wall they will give you bass response into the low 30's.  I know because I just tried them for a month.  They do everything the reviewers say the do and have a smooth top end too. And the shipping is free both ways.  One of Fritz's monitors will also get you great bass response and he will also let you give them a test drive.

MONKEYWICKEDMONKEY

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Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #103 on: 21 Sep 2019, 04:22 am »
You keep trying to compare apples to oranges and no matter how many different ways you formulate the same question the answer will be the same.  Bass perception from a box speaker and an OB speaker is different in the same room on the same gear with the same music.  I know that to be true because I have tested it.  In my Family Room system in a room that is 22'x26'x10' I regularly swap between a pair of Nola KO's and M3TM's with the same gear.  Both speakers have similar spec'd bass response but on the same music the bass may reach the same frequency level but the perception of it is different even if they measure the same with a meter.  If you're in a smaller room and anticipate moving to a smaller room and want good bass response that is less likely to disturb neighbors order a pair of Burchardt S400's and try them for 30 days and if they don't work send them back.  If placed between 18-24" of the wall they will give you bass response into the low 30's.  I know because I just tried them for a month.  They do everything the reviewers say the do and have a smooth top end too. And the shipping is free both ways.  One of Fritz's monitors will also get you great bass response and he will also let you give them a test drive.

So you’re suggesting I buy speakers you hated enough to return?

Kidding.
Sort of.

I’m not as much comparing so much as using what I can relate to to translate something different I have not yet experienced. I feel like it’s disingenuous to buy something I feel like won’t work. Yes, there’s a return policy but still. My musical interests arent anything Special but aren’t what the music reviewers listen to and probably not by a majority of those on audiophile forums. So I feel like taking someone’s Word about speakers knowing they listen to Diana Krall is basically like explaining the sound to me French.

Don’t worry though. I’ll be gone soon.

Tyson

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #104 on: 21 Sep 2019, 04:39 am »
Bass is bass.  If you're listening to music with strong bass, it's gonna go through the walls like they aren't there.  Whether it's produced by a box speaker or an OB speaker won't matter, physics is physics. 

Again, it seems like you want to have speakers that produce a lot of bass while at the same time you don't want the bass to disturb your neighbors.  Sorry man, anything that can produce really strong bass is going to disturb the neighbors. 

JackD

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Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #105 on: 21 Sep 2019, 04:57 am »
Did I say I hated them enough to return them?  No I didn't but then again you don't seem to take what people tell you to heart because we don't listen to what you do.  Some of us have a whole lot more experience then you but when you ask for advice and get it you just move on.  Good luck with your endless search as sometimes you just have to pay your money and take your chances. 

Wind Chaser

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #106 on: 21 Sep 2019, 05:15 pm »
Bass is bass.

:slap: :banghead:


Quote
If you're listening to music with strong bass, it's gonna go through the walls like they aren't there.  Whether it's produced by a box speaker or an OB speaker won't matter...

BULLSHIT! I know from experience box speaker bass is very different from OB bass. You can ask my former neighbors about that.

FACT — I can turn up my M3’s a much louder than any other speaker I’ve previously owned — well into insane concert like SPL’s with bass heavy music in my listening room downstairs; however upstairs (1400 square feet open concept) it’s almost as quiet as library. And if you go into any of the bedrooms and shut the door, you’ll have no problem going to sleep totally unaware of the chaos going on below.

Don’t believe me? Bring your earplugs and SPL meter over to my place in Canada. Hard hat any body armour not required. :D
« Last Edit: 21 Sep 2019, 10:04 pm by Wind Chaser »

Tyson

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #107 on: 23 Sep 2019, 05:33 am »
:slap: :banghead:


BULLSHIT! I know from experience box speaker bass is very different from OB bass. You can ask my former neighbors about that.

FACT — I can turn up my M3’s a much louder than any other speaker I’ve previously owned — well into insane concert like SPL’s with bass heavy music in my listening room downstairs; however upstairs (1400 square feet open concept) it’s almost as quiet as library. And if you go into any of the bedrooms and shut the door, you’ll have no problem going to sleep totally unaware of the chaos going on below.

Don’t believe me? Bring your earplugs and SPL meter over to my place in Canada. Hard hat any body armour not required. :D

I can only report my experience with my OB setup in my main system downstairs.  The deep bass can vibrate the entire house when I crank it.  Of course, now that I think about it, my speakers can do well over 100db at 20hz, and are only down 6db at 16hz.  I suppose if my speakers only went down to 35hz or so, it might not disturb the rest of the house as much. 

morganc

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #108 on: 23 Sep 2019, 01:45 pm »
IME Tyson the bass from the GR Research speakers is much better than from the Spatial M Lines. My old Super V's definitely rocked the house, spatials, not so much.  So I think it's an apple and orange comparison of Servo controlled OB vs the Spatial line. IMO. It could of course be also different house, room, amps, etc....

MONKEYWICKEDMONKEY

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Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #109 on: 23 Sep 2019, 03:05 pm »
...

Tyson

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #110 on: 23 Sep 2019, 04:07 pm »
IME Tyson the bass from the GR Research speakers is much better than from the Spatial M Lines. My old Super V's definitely rocked the house, spatials, not so much.  So I think it's an apple and orange comparison of Servo controlled OB vs the Spatial line. IMO. It could of course be also different house, room, amps, etc....

Agreed, but I should point out that Spatial does use the servo controlled bass system in the L1 and the L2.  I heard the L2 a last year at RMAF and they were pretty incredible. 

Having said all that, I did have some different OB speakers about 3 years ago and they only went down to 35hz or so, and I think (based on memory) that Wind Chaser is right - they didn't really shake the house and vibrate stuff like box speakers would.

Wind Chaser

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #111 on: 23 Sep 2019, 05:33 pm »
20 Hz @ 100 dB would require some interesting source material. The sole purpose of my system is strictly for the enjoyment of music; I’m not into home theatre or listening to test tones.

The fact is a typical box speaker doesn’t have to go down anywhere near 20 Hz or even remotely close to 100 dB to get a rise out of the neighbors. I’ve been in that situation with speakers that don’t go much lower than 40 Hz with SPL’s below 90 dbs.


Tyson

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #112 on: 23 Sep 2019, 05:42 pm »
20 Hz @ 100 dB would require some interesting source material. The sole purpose of my system is strictly for the enjoyment of music; I’m not into home theatre or listening to test tones.

The fact is a typical box speaker doesn’t have to go down anywhere near 20 Hz or even remotely close to 100 dB to get a rise out of the neighbors. I’ve been in that situation with speakers that don’t go much lower than 40 Hz with SPL’s below 90 dbs.



I'm not sure if you're not reading what I wrote or you are being intentionally obtuse. 

MONKEYWICKEDMONKEY

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Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #113 on: 23 Sep 2019, 05:47 pm »
To clarify: I don't want to shake the apartment. I have neighbors. My question is, hearing that OB bass doesn't pressurize a room, would something like the bass from an 808 drum machine still have the pressure conveyed to the listener at the listening position. By all accounts it will the give slam I like, so this would be the other question have.

Maybe I should have done a better job wording my statement initially.

undertowogt1

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #114 on: 23 Sep 2019, 10:24 pm »
I just sampled some Beasties, Portishead. I played them at a high Volume. In my room the Speakers do not really Pressurize the room IMO. The Bass is very nice and the way I like it. Deep, Clean and defined. I have no Sub.

MONKEYWICKEDMONKEY

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Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #115 on: 23 Sep 2019, 10:32 pm »
I just sampled some Beasties, Portishead. I played them at a high Volume. In my room the Speakers do not really Pressurize the room IMO. The Bass is very nice and the way I like it. Deep, Clean and defined. I have no Sub.

Perfect. Thank you

Wind Chaser

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #116 on: 23 Sep 2019, 11:37 pm »
I'm not sure if you're not reading what I wrote or you are being intentionally obtuse.

I don’t know how much music there is apart from techno and trance with much going on below 30 Hz. I’m not into that type of music and am I into home theatre, not that there’s anything wrong with that.  :D

However if it takes 20 Hz @ 100 dB for an OB to shake a house, that’s quite something considering I can easily exceed 100 dbs late at night or into the wee hours of the morning on any given day of the week without disturbing anyone’s sleep. OTOH, box speakers incapable of anything much lower than 40 Hz at relatively moderate volumes (<90dbs) have netted complaints from neighbors.  :scratch:

So it seems clear to me based on that experience there’s real difference between OB’s and box speakers.

Tyson

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #117 on: 24 Sep 2019, 12:28 am »
I don’t know how much music there is apart from techno and trance with much going on below 30 Hz. I’m not into that type of music and am I into home theatre, not that there’s anything wrong with that.  :D

However if it takes 20 Hz @ 100 dB for an OB to shake a house, that’s quite something considering I can easily exceed 100 dbs late at night or into the wee hours of the morning on any given day of the week without disturbing anyone’s sleep. OTOH, box speakers incapable of anything much lower than 40 Hz at relatively moderate volumes (<90dbs) have netted complaints from neighbors.  :scratch:

So it seems clear to me based on that experience there’s real difference between OB’s and box speakers.






I'm guessing you entirely missed this statement, where I explicitly agree with you re: 35hz OB bass:

Having said all that, I did have some different OB speakers about 3 years ago and they only went down to 35hz or so, and I think (based on memory) that Wind Chaser is right - they didn't really shake the house and vibrate stuff like box speakers would.

Which is why I said:

I'm not sure if you're not reading what I wrote or you are being intentionally obtuse. 

Wind Chaser

Re: M3 or maybe M4 for me?
« Reply #118 on: 24 Sep 2019, 05:31 am »
Okay, so maybe I was being a little obtuse in dwelling on the exactitude of the point I was making, but not as an affront to you. Clarity in communication is high fidelity. As with the gear, so with the expression of the mind - always striving for excellence. That’s what this hobby is all about!  :thumb: