Pioneer UDP-LX500

eichlerera1 · « **on:** 13 Apr 2019, 03:01 am »

As the proud owner of the first Pioneer UDP-LX500 Player off the line, I'm here to state this is one hell of a piece of gear.
As much as I love my Sony Es9000 mod by Dan, this player pretty much kicks it's ass!

I have to admit, upon arrival, I added some of my own tweaks to Dan's original design so this is not strictly a standard unit.
BTW, most of my tweaks were of the vibration and RFI/EMI reducing types.

This is my initial impressions with hardly any burn in. (I figure about 40-80 hrs actual playing time should do it)
This is comparing it to the Sony. I've never heard the OPPO Modded Units. (Maybe Dan can comment)
1) VERY resolving from the bass to the treble in a not-in-your-face way.
2) VERY black background!
3) I played my usual test CD cuts and discovered things I had never heard before.
4) This unit is built like a brick shit house! Very heavy with a thick metal enclosure!

I'll leave it there as this unit will definitely change and evolve given additional burn-in.
Right now it's a fetus.

I'm REALLY excited since the sound will only get better with time.
Plus I anticipate re-tubing at some time in the near future.

Paul Galli

jtsnead · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 Jun 2019, 08:08 pm »

Just ordered one

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Aug 2020, 04:55 am »

Some posts have mysteriously disappeared from this thread.

With that said, I have a question.
Has anybody (Dan included) ever hooked up the unit's "Zero Signal Terminal" to an input of your PreAmp?

jtsnead · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Aug 2020, 02:05 pm »

I saw that awesome and meant to try it but have not I will now

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Aug 2020, 02:51 pm »

Quote from: jtsnead on 18 Aug 2020, 02:05 pm

I saw that awesome and meant to try it but have not I will now

Please let us know your reaction.

BobRex · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Aug 2020, 03:01 pm »

Are the stock units still available? I see Music Direct has pulled it from the website.

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Aug 2020, 04:41 am »

The units are temporarily unavailable due to COVID plant shutdowns.
What remaining units that are left are being gouged for about double the price.
I believe they will resume production in the Sept-Oct time frame.

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 Aug 2020, 04:59 am »

My posts on this subject have disappeared for some reason.
I had posted the same notes on another site so I had access to them.
Will summarize all in one post.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 13. 2019

As the proud owner of the first Pioneer UDP-LX500 Player off the line, I'm here to state this is one hell of a piece of gear.
As much as I love my Sony Es9000 mod by Dan, this player pretty much kicks it's ass!

I have to admit, upon arrival, I added some of my own tweaks to Dan's original design so this is not strictly a standard unit.
BTW, most of my tweaks were of the vibration and RFI/EMI reducing types.

This is my initial impressions with hardly any burn in. (I figure about 40-80 hrs actual playing time should do it)
This is comparing it to the Sony. I've never heard the OPPO Modded Units. (Maybe Dan can comment)
1) VERY resolving from the bass to the treble in a not-in-your-face way.
2) VERY black background!
3) I played my usual test CD cuts and discovered things I had never heard before.
4) This unit is built like a brick shit house! Very heavy with a thick metal enclosure!

I'll leave it there as this unit will definitely change and evolve given additional burn-in.
Right now it's a fetus.

I'm REALLY excited since the sound will only get better with time.
Plus I anticipate re-tubing at some time in the near future.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 19, 2019

The modded Pioneer UDP-LX500 CD player is really settling in nicely.
Frankly, I'm amazed how good the JJ 6922 output tube sounds.
What's even more sobering is that JJ produces a 6922 select, gold plated pin version which they claim is even better!

I had assumed that I would tube roll in an Amperex or a Telefunken,
but it is hard to believe that they could improve much on the existing sound.

If a classic NOS tube substitution could take this to even greater heights,
this modded Pioneer will be a World Class giant killer!

Dan has really hit a home run on this Mod...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tue Apr 23, 2019
Decided to pull the trigger today and get some vintage NOS 6922 tubes for my Modwright Pioneer CD Player.
On Dan's advice, I called Andy Bouwman from Vintage Tube Services to get fixed up.

After discussing how the tubes would be used, we came to the conclusion that The Amperex 6922 was the best choice.
Amperex introduced the 6DJ8/6922 family of tubes in 1958.
He picked out close matching tubes from 1965 that had the same exact date code.
"USN" White label, gold pins in original box.

Twernt cheap, but felt I had to get the best in order to determine the true capabilities of this Pioneer Player.
Hopefully, it will make a huge difference, but if it doesn't I'll let you know. (Andy is positive that it will)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 01, 2019
Well, I got my Amperex 6922 tubes to roll into my new Modwright player.
Got some good news and bad news.
The bad news is that great NOS signal tubes cost a small fortune.
The good news is that they can elevate the Pioneer to greater heights.

Popped in the Amperex 6922s today and sat down for some evaluation.

Believe me, I was having second thoughts about spending the money necessary to "go for it".
It would have to be an OBVIOUS positive difference for me to feel vindicated.
After about one minute (with no equipment warmup), I was smilin' from ear to ear...

The JJ 6922 is a decent, current production tube.
With it you can climb to the top o' the mountain.
With the Amperex, you climb to the mountain top and ascend into Valhalla.

Detailed yet sweet. All facets in balance.
Not bigger bass, just ultra tight, clean, fully articulated bass. ZERO boom.
Perfect, not overly etched highs. (Serious tinkle sound factor here)
Great low, middle and high midrange.
3-D Sound Stage to die for with great imaging and layering.
Orchestral works are not muddied when all the instruments are playing. Each section are distinct from one another.
On great recordings, the "you are there" factor is quite high.
Low level details are way more evident.
Great transient response.
Yadda Yadda Yadda.

You get the idea.

With a great NOS tube, this player becomes TRULY special!

Paul Galli

kmmd · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 Aug 2020, 01:32 pm »

Congrats on your player Paul! Dan’s mods are excellent, and his customer service is exemplary.

The Amperex 6922’s are very good. I had a US made pair of PQ’s in my VAC. Now I’m using a pair of cryoed Telefunken’s and have a regular pair as backup. Both matched pairs are from a “stash.” The Amperex’s are 3rd in line. Yes, the 6922’s are quite expensive but worth it IMO.

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 Aug 2020, 02:50 pm »

Quote from: kmmd on 20 Aug 2020, 01:32 pm

Congrats on your player Paul! Dan’s mods are excellent, and his customer service is exemplary.

The Amperex 6922’s are very good. I had a US made pair of PQ’s in my VAC. Now I’m using a pair of cryoed Telefunken’s and have a regular pair as backup. Both matched pairs are from a “stash.” The Amperex’s are 3rd in line. Yes, the 6922’s are quite expensive but worth it IMO.

What characteristics makes you prefer the Telefunken over the Amperex?
I like the Amperex because of it's vividness.

kmmd · « **Reply #10 on:** 20 Aug 2020, 03:06 pm »

Quote from: eichlerera1 on 20 Aug 2020, 02:50 pm

What characteristics makes you prefer the Telefunken over the Amperex?
I like the Amperex because it's vividness.

The Amperex’s are as you describe. I preferred them over my Mullard’s. The Telefunken’s add on to the Amperex qualities by giving you more expansiveness and depth of the soundstage while improving on presence, impact and weight of everything from voices to instruments. Inner detail also improved and more apparent. Please do remember that I’m speaking with respect to my VAC preamp and not a player.

rbbert · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Aug 2020, 07:22 pm »

In my Oppo 205, I would rank these 4 sets of NOS tubes as follows:
Telefunken Cca (1961/1962) > Mullard 10M (early '60's) > Siemens Cca (1971/72) > Miniwatt (Amperex Holland) E188CC (late '50's)

However, they are all excellent tubes and I would be happy with any; I roll them from time to time just for variety. The Telefunkens do everything best except for the unbeatable warm and airy midrange of the Mullards, but in no case is there a huge difference (as there is comparing any of these the stock tubes)

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Aug 2020, 04:02 am »

Any results from a Pioneer's "Zero Signal Terminal" to Pre Amp hookup?

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 27 Sep 2020, 02:23 am »

Hooked up the cable from the Pioneer's "Zero Signal Terminal" to a spare negative input connector on my ModWright Pre Amp.

I noticed a reduction in tube hiss when I put my ear right on the tweeter. (actually, very little to begin with)
I was quite surprised to find an improvement to the highs and a bit more precise imaging.
Therefore, I enthusiastically recommend everybody gives this a try!

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Sep 2020, 02:39 pm »

I had this gnawing feeling that I didn't do enough investigation.

So on my Pre Amp, I determined there was continuity between the outer portions (-) of ALL the Right & Left Input RCA Connectors.
So they all share a common ground. This was logical and expected.

I did the same thing to the Pioneer CD Player.
I determined there was continuity between the outer portions (-) of both the Right & Left Output AND the "Zero Signal" RCA Connectors.
So they all share a common ground. I actually expected the "Zero Signal" to be isolated.
This means that all six of the involved female box mount RCA plug's negatives are common to each other.

I measured this with both units off and both units on with the same results.

If that is the case, why do you need the "Zero Signal" hookup???
It's just another, repetitive grounding path between the two units.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that there is some active internal circuit associated with the "Zero Signal" function within the Pioneer.

I am very curious as to what is going on here and intend to contact Pioneer Tech Support and grill them on this matter.
Hopefully I can find a good phone number...

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Oct 2020, 04:35 am »

Called Pioneer Customer Service and asked to speak with the Tech Support Team.
The Rep said they did not have a Tech Support Team.
I asked if there was a way to speak to somebody familiar with the Pioneer's internal circuits.
The Rep said no, there's no way to get in touch with the designers.
I asked the Rep whether he could provide me any info on how the "Zero Signal" circuit operates.
He stated that he could only provide info that is within the Service Manual provided with each unit.

I let him know Pioneer's Customer Service was seriously lacking.
He said he would ask around and get back to me.

I'm not holding my breath....

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Oct 2020, 03:23 am »

Since it's obvious that the Pioneer Organization is clueless, I decided to waste 1-1/2 hours of my life looking up reviews of the Pioneer player to see what I could glean.
The following are the best examples:

Audioholics
The player also features a Zero Signal Terminal connection, which connects to any unused audio or video RCA input jack on an AV receiver or processor. The Zero Signal connection aligns the reference ground level between the devices, providing “precise and high-quality signal transmission,” according to Pioneer.

Home Cinema Magazine
The Zero Signal Terminal is a simple cinch connection that connects you to an unused cinch input on your AV receiver. This allows the player to align the reference level (the ground (GND)) of both devices. This avoids any potential differences and guarantees the player the best possible transmission. We tried this with our Onkyo AVR and a music file that contains silence. However, when we connected the ZST there was a very soft hum in the speakers, a deterioration rather than an improvement. For that we had to set the amplifier very loud, so in practice the impact seems very limited. Anyone who doubts leaves the ZST connection away, the player also delivers fantastic sound.

Top New Review
There’s an Ethernet jack (no wi-fi) for network playback and BD- Live functionality, a RS232 port for remote control, the aforementioned two-channel analogue audio output (no analogue video outputs) and a grounding terminal referred to as ‘zero signal’. This ‘barrel-only’ (the centre-pin is unconnected) socket would be connected via a phono- to-phono cable to a spare input or output on the rear panel of your audio gear, bringing the LX500 to the latter’s ground potential; I note that although the LX500 has an IEC mains socket, it lacks an earth pin and so it’s ‘floating’.

AudioT
If you want the ultimate in audiophile sound quality from this player then the Zero Signal Terminal is something that owners of any connected amplifier can take advantage of. The Zero Signal Terminal is a Pioneer-original feature dedicated to tuning audio and video quality without signal transmission. By connecting the Zero Signal Terminal with the audio/video input terminal of an AV receiver etc, the reference level (GND) of the audio/video signals is aligned between the two devices, and the potential difference is suppressed, allowing a precise and high-quality signal transmission.

I don't know the source of their additional new information, but it wasn't from "Customer Service".
BTW, their explanations really are superficial as they don't explain how the grounds are equalized from a circuit POV.

eichlerera1 · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Nov 2020, 04:07 am »

I wrote Pioneer a detailed explanation of the measurements I made and the questions I had. After a month and a half, Pioneer finally got back to me stating they had relayed my email to their "Designers" and the response was the only info they would be able to provide me was that detailed in the Equipment Manual that came with the unit.

Apparently, there has been a change in ownership and the new Pioneer Team has crapped the bed as far as tech support goes. Caveat Emptor....

jtsnead · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 Nov 2020, 09:09 pm »

LOL just saw this don't know why I don't get notifications from threads on here.
Well @eichlerera1 you have done your due diligence, I did hook it up to my BHK preamp I did not hear any difference.

bellicon · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Oct 2021, 01:00 am »

Quote from: eichlerera1 on 16 Nov 2020, 04:07 am

I wrote Pioneer a detailed explanation of the measurements I made and the questions I had. After a month and a half, Pioneer finally got back to me stating they had relayed my email to their "Designers" and........apparently, there has been a change in ownership and the new Pioneer Team has crapped the bed as far as tech support goes. Caveat Emptor....

Really infuriating how no thanks to Pioneer and/or Onkyo's mismanagment the Pioneer Elite BD player line was doomed to die, especially after they failed to sell themselves to https://www.soundunited.com/. Hopefully, the new owners of Pioneer A/V products will at least provide major replacement parts support for the next several years. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/voxx-international-corporation-completes-the-acquisition-of-the-audiovideo-business-of-onkyo-home-entertainment-corporation-301371856.html https://premiumaudiovideo.com/ However, I was not all that satisfied with replies to inquiries here; I get a sense of indifference. https://www.pioneerhomeusa.com/product-category/additional-products/blu-ray-disc/ Can you imagine spending > $1K for a player this sweet only to be left with no parts support a few years later? Let us pray.........

Meanwhile, some of these questions may have been asked and answered here. However, as I jumped on the LX500 as soon as one here confirmed its fully functional zoom control-but because too many treasured BDs in my collection have needlessly disabled zoom-ISO support is a big question for me.

Has anyone here found the LX500 to fully support a BD movie backup to ISO burned to a BD-RE?

Can you zoom in on scenes AND then use the four buttons to move the desired part of the zoomed image to center it on the screen?

And perfect playback of the DTS Master Audio tracks?

CAUTION: Will this firmware update disable any prior ISO support?
https://www.pioneerhomeusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Firmware_Update_for_UDP-LX500_05_27_2021.pdf