[mick wolfe]

Your ceiling height pushes room volume close to 3000 cu. ft.  I’m guessing that almost qualifies as large... or certainly on the upper end of what would be considered a medium sized room. Depending on what you listen to and how loud you listen, but I would recommend 2 subs regardless. I have a similar size room volume wise and 2 subs are pretty much mandatory with my open baffle Spatial M2 Turbo’s. Once again depending on your listening priorities, you may find you’ll need a bigger Magnepan in a room this size. In the end, let your ears decide though.

[josh358]

I have my 1st set of Magnepans (LRS) on order.  I've read here and there about room size, but I don't know what makes small, medium or large.
Mine's 12x20. The ceiling is 12ft. Is this a small, medium or large room? Would you recommend a sub along with the LRS in this space?

By the way, I'll be using Emotiva Stealth PA-1 monoblocks fed from my HT receiver. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this combo.

BTW, I've been following this thread pretty much since it started. Is there a way to be notified when there are new posts?

Thanks!

Your room is a bit unusual since it's fairly big by volume but small by width. What I'd suggest is that you let your ears decide, as Mick Wolfe said. Which is to say get them, experiment with position and let them burn in (bass extension will increase at first as you play them), and then you can decide whether you want to add a sub.

[AvsFan]

Yep, had that NuForce in system for about 2 weeks.  Sent it back within the 30 day audition period. (AudioAdvisor) Maybe with the "right" speaker, but it simply wasn't as good as the Classdaudio SDS 254 I had at that time. This driving the 4 ohm Spatial M2 Turbo I've mentioned in this thread. Apparently it doesn't like 4 ohm loads. I don't believe a 4 ohm power rating is ever mentioned in the NuForce specs either.

Yeah, I knew it was going to be apples and oranges here. I had the NuForce driving my 97db ZU Audio Omens. And it sounded spectacular with those. It didn't break a sweat. With the Maggie's, completely different story. PS Audio offers a $450 discount on the Stellar S 300 with trades so I am going to trade the NuForce in and get the Stellar S300. Seems like a spectacular amp. Or like you,go with a Class D Audio amp, I might get their top of the line SDS 470CS. 600 watts per channel at 4ohms and call it a day. Do you think the upgraded power supply is worth the money? And I keep hearing everyone say that the Maggie's love high current amps. What classifies a high current amp? I don't understand that? What do you look for in a high current amp? Do you think someone here can come up with a list of high current 4ohm or under amps that the Maggie's will play well with? And amps within reason. Like $1500 or lower.

[AvsFan]

I have Magnepan 1.7i as one of my reference speaker pairs.  I had MMGs for years and upgraded.

Question is: How does LRS compare to MMG or even 1.7i?  Regarding amplification, are these still "hard to drive" at medium-high volume?  Can they handle rock music?

One of my amplifier torture tests is to play the song Zombie at nearly max volume.  The 1.7i was such a step up in performance, especially in the bass -- no sub needed for most listeners with DC coupled amps and direct drive from a DC coupled DAC.  I wonder if getting a pair of LRS would be a good move since they are such an outstanding value.

I'd like to hear from people who actually own a pair (or more)....

I heard the 1.7's at my local hi-fi shop. And obviously I own the LRS's. Although very early impressions here due to I have been playing with them for about 5 days now.
The LRS's sound A LOT like the 1.7's, although as you can probably guess, the 1.7's sound bigger, fuller,  more bass ans just a larger scale, not by much though. To me, the LRS's sound even more detailed and airy though. Like I will NEVER have to say to myself, "What did the musician just say?" Everything comes through with a clarity that I have NEVER heard in a speaker before. Like they are sitting here in the room singing to you. I wonder what one of these would sound like as a center channel speaker. 

As far as amplification goes, YES! They are HARD to drive. I am sure that I am not even coming close to their full potential with the little 80 watt per channel amp I am using now. I was getting some clipping earlier on. And it get's hot enough to fry an egg on.

Can you explain to me what you mean by DC coupled amps and direct drive from a DC coupled DAC means? I have no idea what that is, flew right over my head. 

 
And as far as adding a sub goes, from my experience so far, YES, they ABSOLUTELY need a sub or two. But the bass they do produce is great! It's articulate and snappy and sounds good, just not very forceful or a lot impact and they aren't going to play low. I have an entire playlist for drum songs and they aren't going to cut it without a little help from some good integrated subs. I see some REL's or Rythmiks in my near future.

But for $650?!?!?!?! One of the BEST values I have seen in audio. 
   

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Yeah, I knew it was going to be apples and oranges here. I had the NuForce driving my 97db ZU Audio Omens. And it sounded spectacular with those. It didn't break a sweat. With the Maggie's, completely different story. PS Audio offers a $450 discount on the Stellar S 300 with trades so I am going to trade the NuForce in and get the Stellar S300. Seems like a spectacular amp. Or like you,go with a Class D Audio amp, I might get their top of the line SDS 470CS. 600 watts per channel at 4ohms and call it a day. Do you think the upgraded power supply is worth the money? And I keep hearing everyone say that the Maggie's love high current amps. What classifies a high current amp? I don't understand that? What do you look for in a high current amp? Do you think someone here can come up with a list of high current 4ohm or under amps that the Maggie's will play well with? And amps within reason. Like $1500 or lower.

I own a pair of 1.6's and original MMG's.  To get the most out of them you need a high wpc and high current amp.  The dynamics really come alive. I use to use a Parasound A21 at 400 wpc and 60 peak amps and the 1.6's sounded great.  I now use a Pass Labs X250 at 500 wpc but less peak amps. It was a huge step up in sound.

My MMG's  use to clip a 120 wpc receiver.  They did much better with a 250 wpc receiver.

If you are looking at PS audio, consider the Stellar 700's which is a nice step up in sound quality  and huge step up in power.  You can get a great deal  on them at Underwood Hifi.  Also consider a Van Alstine SET 400.  I did a review on it with my Maggies.

If you are considering a Class D audio amp, get the largest power supply they offer.  I own a Class D audio amp as well.  The upgraded PS makes a difference. I am not too impressed by the Class D audio amp. 

Larry

[mick wolfe]

For only an additional $100, the upgraded power supply was an easy choice for me.  That said, my only comparison would to the SDS 254 (with standard power supply) I'd previously owned. Being's that there's such a vast difference in power at 4 ohms ....250 vs. 600, probably not a valid comparison. The SDS 470 just comes across with more authority and sense of ease.  The build quality/clean layout of the Classdaudio amps is pretty stunning at this price point. In regard to current drive, that would be a question for Tom at Classdaudio. Like already mentioned though, he's used his amps to drive 3.7's for years.

[AvsFan]

I have my 1st set of Magnepans (LRS) on order.  I've read here and there about room size, but I don't know what makes small, medium or large.
Mine's 12x20. The ceiling is 12ft. Is this a small, medium or large room? Would you recommend a sub along with the LRS in this space?

By the way, I'll be using Emotiva Stealth PA-1 monoblocks fed from my HT receiver. I'd appreciate any thoughts on this combo.

BTW, I've been following this thread pretty much since it started. Is there a way to be notified when there are new posts?

Thanks!

I have a 12x9 room with 8 foot ceilings. Just moved my Maggie's up here last night and love them. They were in a living room that was open to a kitchen ad hallway and stairs and higher ceilings. They say the Maggie's need space but I like them better in my smaller room.

You are using an HT AVR for the Maggie's? Are they going to be used in a home theater application?  Just curious, what kind of AVR do you have? I am thinking about trying the Maggie's out in my home theater room.

[AvsFan]

I own a pair of 1.6's and original MMG's.  To get the most out of them you need a high wpc and high current amp.  The dynamics really come alive. I use to use a Parasound A21 at 400 wpc and 60 peak amps and the 1.6's sounded great.  I now use a Pass Labs X250 at 500 wpc but less peak amps. It was a huge step up in sound.

My MMG's  use to clip a 120 wpc receiver.  They did much better with a 250 wpc receiver.

If you are looking at PS audio, consider the Stellar 700's which is a nice step up in sound quality  and huge step up in power.  You can get a great deal  on them at Underwood Hifi.  Also consider a Van Alstine SET 400.  I did a review on it with my Maggies.

If you are considering a Class D audio amp, get the largest power supply they offer.  I own a Class D audio amp as well.  The upgraded PS makes a difference. I am not too impressed by the Class D audio amp. 

Larry

Yeah, the 700's and the VA SET400 are VERY nice choices but starting to get way above my price point. I told myself I would set a limit of no more than $1500 for an amp. 

So you're the one who reviewed that SET 400 huh. I have been talking to Frank for a long time. I almost pulled the trigger on his SET 120 awhile back to power my ZU's. From what I hear, it is just a miniature version of the 400.

Which Class D Audio amp do you own? That's too bad because the price is so good on them. What don't you like about it?

Maybe I will just save the money and increase my budget to $2000. That WILL get me both the SET 400 and Stellar 700's. There is a $900 trade in discount that I can use on the PS Audio stuff.

So between those two, what do you think the better amp is for the Maggie's?

[AvsFan]

For only an additional $100, the upgraded power supply was an easy choice for me.  That said, my only comparison would to the SDS 254 (with standard power supply) I'd previously owned. Being's that there's such a vast difference in power at 4 ohms ....250 vs. 600, probably not a valid comparison. The SDS 470 just comes across with more authority and sense of ease.  The build quality/clean layout of the Classdaudio amps is pretty stunning at this price point. In regard to current drive, that would be a question for Tom at Classdaudio. Like already mentioned though, he's used his amps to drive 3.7's for years.

See..... When I finally get set on picking an amp, I get two totally different replies. You like the Class D Audio amps and Larry in the post before yours did not. But it seems like he is comparing it to some expensive amps. For the money, I bet the Class D Audio amps sound pretty good. But still, I am alway sgoing to wonder what if... I just saved more money and bought something special for the Maggie's and never looked back?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have heard the SET 400 with my Maggies and the S700 on a pair of PSB Synchrony One's.  So I really can't compare them.

Both sound great.  The S700 has a lot more power so it will play louder and it would be great if you ever decide to get a pair of 3.7i's.
I love the tone of the SET.  It has a fuller mid range.  Vocals are sublime.  The S700 will have more transparency and wider sound stage I believe. But that is speculative.  I prefer a slightly warmer sound with a tonally rich and deep mid range without sacrificing air and transparency.

I have a 254 Class D amp at 250 wpc..  It is rough around the edges and bright sounding.  It has the smaller PS and it gets really rough sounding when I turn up the volume with my MMG's.  For the price, it is a nice sounding amp, but Maggies really do sound better with higher quality amps.

One recommendation for the Maggies.  Try a Mills 1 ohm resistor and Duelund 1.2 ohm resistor in the tweeter.  I find that they improve the sound in my room which is wood floors and windows.  It tones down the tweeters just a bit.  If you have carpet they may not be necessary.  But I use to have carpet and I still preferred the Maggies with the resistors.  Believe it or not, the Mills has a warmer sound compared to the Duelund which are more neutral.  The Duelunds also seemed to give a wider sound stage but I did not use the Mills for more than 1 hours, so it may have sounded better with more playing time if you believe in break in for resistors.


https://www.partsconnexion.com/MILLS-71901.html

https://www.partsconnexion.com/DUELUND-74958.html

[I.Greyhound Fan]

See..... When I finally get set on picking an amp, I get two totally different replies. You like the Class D Audio amps and Larry in the post before yours did not. But it seems like he is comparing it to some expensive amps. For the money, I bet the Class D Audio amps sound pretty good. But still, I am alway sgoing to wonder what if... I just saved more money and bought something special for the Maggie's and never looked back?

I think that you should buy something special and never look back.  Then you won't have upgradeitis in the future for your amp.


I you have any interest in a Parasound A21, there are a few for sale in Audiogon right now since the new A21 plus has come out.  There is also a pair of S700's for $2K.

By the way.  Maggies sound great with a SS amp and a tube preamp.  I use a BAT VK-51se tube pre

[Wind Chaser]

I think that you should buy something special and never look back.  Then you won't have upgradeitis in the future for your amp.

+1

If you spend $1200 on this, you’ll never look back, unless you’ve got 10k plus burning a whole in your pocket. I’ve owned a number of very fine tube amps over the years and a few pretty decent SS amps too, but this is soooooooooo much better. 

[AvsFan]

I have heard the SET 400 with my Maggies and the S700 on a pair of PSB Synchrony One's.  So I really can't compare them.

Both sound great.  The S700 has a lot more power so it will play louder and it would be great if you ever decide to get a pair of 3.7i's.
I love the tone of the SET.  It has a fuller mid range.  Vocals are sublime.  The S700 will have more transparency and wider sound stage I believe. But that is speculative.  I prefer a slightly warmer sound with a tonally rich and deep mid range without sacrificing air and transparency.

Well...... I think you just SOLD me on the SET 400.  In my room, I SERIOUSLY doubt I am ever going to need the power in the SET 400 let a lone even more power with the S700. I also doubt I would ever step up to the 3.7i's. From the small amount of time I have had with the LRS's on an amp that isn't even opening them up, this could very well be end game for me. At least for a VERY long time. I want to stop chasing the dragon and just be happy. So with that said, I want an amp to make me happy and your comments on the SET 400 about the tone, fuller mid range and and vocals being Sublime. And then without sacrificing air and transparency. Which I would assume the SET 400 doesn't sacrifice in that department. That's all I needed to hear. I have been wanting to give VA stuff a go for awhile now. This gives me a great excuse.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Well...... I think you just SOLD me on the SET 400.  In my room, I SERIOUSLY doubt I am ever going to need the power in the SET 400 let a lone even more power with the S700. I also doubt I would ever step up to the 3.7i's. From the small amount of time I have had with the LRS's on an amp that isn't even opening them up, this could very well be end game for me. At least for a VERY long time. I want to stop chasing the dragon and just be happy. So with that said, I want an amp to make me happy and your comments on the SET 400 about the tone, fuller mid range and and vocals being Sublime. And then without sacrificing air and transparency. Which I would assume the SET 400 doesn't sacrifice in that department. That's all I needed to hear. I have been wanting to give VA stuff a go for awhile now. This gives me a great excuse.

The SET 400 is a safe bet since Frank has a great 30 day return policy.  Just remember it will need some break in just like the Maggies need 75 hours.  Also, these higher quality amps will expose an inferior preamp and DAC, especially with Maggies that like high quality recordings. 

What pre and music source will you be using. 

I run my 1.6's with dual Martin Logan original Dynamo subs.  They integrate seamlessly.  They are not the most powerful subs but they are fast and musical.  I run the Maggies full range (down to 40hz) and the subs crossed over at 45hz.  IMHO, over powerful bass will kill the Maggie sound.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

By the way, you won't regret the extra power.  On dynamic music you will notice the extra headroom.

[AvsFan]

The SET 400 is a safe bet since Frank has a great 30 day return policy.  Just remember it will need some break in just like the Maggies need 75 hours.  Also, these higher quality amps will expose an inferior preamp and DAC, especially with Maggies that like high quality recordings. 

What pre and music source will you be using. 

I run my 1.6's with dual Martin Logan original Dynamo subs.  They integrate seamlessly.  They are not the most powerful subs but they are fast and musical.  I run the Maggies full range (down to 40hz) and the subs crossed over at 45hz.  IMHO, over powerful bass will kill the Maggie sound.

I just got off the phone with Frank. The ONLY thing that concerns me, even though I am sure he is HIGHLY competent, is he is training a new guy to build the 400's. Yikes. Kind of scares me, I want someone building my amp that has experience with already building them. 

You run your Maggie's full range down to 40hz? How do you have them crossed over? Is it a setting in your pre-amp?   

And I am building this system from the ground up. I have components that are capable and will do for now but will be replacing them once the funds are available. But for now I have a Yamaha WXC-50 pre/streamer. And a Denon SACD player. I am keeping it simple. Looking into VA pre's as well as the new Parasound P6, or something from Schiit. I had the Saga and really liked it. Just a good quality CD player is what I am looking for for a source and depending if the pre I buy has a DAC, I might only use the CD player as a transport. Subs will most likely be REL's.

And I agree, too much low frequency would not mate well with the clarity, efortless and open sound of the Maggie's.

[AvsFan]

By the way, you won't regret the extra power.  On dynamic music you will notice the extra headroom.

Oh I am sure. But I am still fairly confident that at 450 per channel, there will be plenty of headroom for dynamics.
No replacement for displacement. 

[rbclark]

I have a 12x9 room with 8 foot ceilings. Just moved my Maggie's up here last night and love them. They were in a living room that was open to a kitchen ad hallway and stairs and higher ceilings. They say the Maggie's need space but I like them better in my smaller room.

You are using an HT AVR for the Maggie's? Are they going to be used in a home theater application?  Just curious, what kind of AVR do you have? I am thinking about trying the Maggie's out in my home theater room.

Yes, mine is a combined HT and stereo system. I'm fairly easy to please on the HT front, but I like to dabble and upgrade once in a while when a good stereo deal comes along. Now's the time with the LRS. They'll be replacing Frugel-Horns. My AVR is Pioneer SC-1222-K. It has pre-outs for the Emotiva PA-1 monoblocks I bought to power the Maggies. I hope they work out.

BTW, I ordered the LRS 9 weeks ago last Friday. Magnepan says they should ship no later than today. Fingers crossed. Can't wait.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I just got off the phone with Frank. The ONLY thing that concerns me, even though I am sure he is HIGHLY competent, is he is training a new guy to build the 400's. Yikes. Kind of scares me, I want someone building my amp that has experience with already building them. 

You run your Maggie's full range down to 40hz? How do you have them crossed over? Is it a setting in your pre-amp?   

And I am building this system from the ground up. I have components that are capable and will do for now but will be replacing them once the funds are available. But for now I have a Yamaha WXC-50 pre/streamer. And a Denon SACD player. I am keeping it simple. Looking into VA pre's as well as the new Parasound P6, or something from Schiit. I had the Saga and really liked it. Just a good quality CD player is what I am looking for for a source and depending if the pre I buy has a DAC, I might only use the CD player as a transport. Subs will most likely be REL's.

And I agree, too much low frequency would not mate well with the clarity, efortless and open sound of the Maggie's.

My 1.6's go down to 40 or 45hz ( I would have to look up the exact number ), so I do not have to set a crossover point on a preamp (My BAT preamp does not have a dedicated crossover or sub out, I just use the second set of preamp outs.)  I set the HF cut off on my subs.  You only know that the subs are there on bass heavy music if you turn off the subs.  If  you need a sub or a pair go for a non ported version which integrates better with the Maggies.

Franks gear is synergistic.  Pairing the SET amp with one of his preamps would be the way to go.  I would not worry about him breaking in a new builder.  He will take care of you if something is not right.  I know Frank personally and his honorable.

[AvsFan]

My 1.6's go down to 40 or 45hz ( I would have to look up the exact number ), so I do not have to set a crossover point on a preamp (My BAT preamp does not have a dedicated crossover or sub out, I just use the second set of preamp outs.)  I set the HF cut off on my subs.  You only know that the subs are there on bass heavy music if you turn off the subs.  If  you need a sub or a pair go for a non ported version which integrates better with the Maggies.

Franks gear is synergistic.  Pairing the SET amp with one of his preamps would be the way to go.  I would not worry about him breaking in a new builder.  He will take care of you if something is not right.  I know Frank personally and his honorable.

Okay, got it. So it's just the crossover on the Maggie's themselves. Yeah the LRS's go to 50hz so I would cross the sub over at 50. And yes, for sure going with sealed subs, either Rythmik or REL.

And from everything I have read and heard AVA stuff is VERY good and legit. I have talked to Frank on numerous occasions and he is so helpful and loves what he does. I know he would take care of me if there were any issues but I would love for his seasoned guy to build my amp.

But by the time I get around to ordering one of his amps, the guy will be seasoned. I think the route I am going to take for now is going with the PS Audio Stellar S300. All I keep reading is spectacualar reviews on it. And how it sounds more tube like than Class D. Very warm and musical, kind of the way you described the SET400. Steve Guttenberg paired it with his Maggie .7's and said it was a match made in heaven.

https://www.cnet.com/news/get-ready-to-upgrade-over-receiver-sound-quality-amplifier-preamp-power/

Also they have a trade in program, so I can unload the NuForce STA-200, which I have no use for and get $450 off the S300. So that puts it at $1049 or something like that.
Then I can do one of two things. If it's still not enough power for the Maggie's I can move it to my system with the ZU's and order the AVA SET400. Or trade it in for the Monoblocks from PS Audio. For sure the smartest approach and fastest. I can get that within the next couple of weeks. If I get the SET 400 we are talking a couple of months.