[jackman]

I just wanted to throw in my .10...

Go out and listen to both, buy the one that sounds better.  There are lots of get-togethers around the country, some DIY, some commercial.  Go out and hear some well designed ribbon speakers or ones with ribbon tweets (from Selia, Salk, VMPS, GR Research, etc.) and listen to some well designed speakers with dome tweeters (Ellis 1801's, BESL, GR Research, etc.).  

This thread shows how different people prefer different tweeters.  I like things about both but can only afford one system so I go with domes.  The OW1 tweeter is one of my favorites. It may not blow you away in a 30 second demonstration like some tweeters but it just sounds so natural and sweet.   It's the kind of thing you appreciate over time.  Then again, I also like the Arum Cantus ribbon tweets.  Longer tweeters will have limited vertical dispersion but that can be a plus because of less room reflections...unless you listen to music while standing up and walking around.  Also, I've never blown a tweeter, ribbon or dome.  I'm very careful and don't have any children to mess with my system.  That might have something to do with it.

There is no shortcut, you have to go out and listen to everything you can.  Bring your own music and get familiar with some well recorded tracks and play them on different speakers.  Just remember, good speakers on bad electronics (or poorly matched) will usually give you bad sound.  Make sure when you are evaluating speakers you are actually evaluating speakers not a poorly matched system.  

In the end, you will be the one who has to be happy with your system.  Don't get swayed by flavors of the week.   Just listen to everything and get what sounds best to you.  Also, don't worry about making the "perfect" decision as you will most likely make changes in preference.  This is more like dating than marriage.

Good luck,

J

[Rick Craig]

Simple.... ribbons suck and domes don't.  

Ribbons of any length have a different verticle dispersion pattern than the horizonal.   Try matching that with a radiating surface that has a different dispersion pattern.   What you end up with is uneven off-axis behavior at crossover.   Also... long ribbons act like a line source.   The measured performance varies with seating distance.    More traditional driver act more as a point source so it is difficult to design them for anything but a fixed list ...

Actually the vertical dispersion is related to both the ribbon length and the loading of the faceplate and magnet structure. I've designed several speakers using ribbons that have excellent vertical coverage. It's just a matter of choosing the right drivers and optimizing the crossover.

Because of the exceptional off-axis horizontal response a wide listening window is possible. Again, this is a function of the width of the ribbon element as well as the directivity effect of the magnet structure and faceplate. The same physics apply to a dome design as well.

As long as you stay within certain design criteria (ribbon length) there is not any need for a fixed listening distance. The output of the ribbon(s) can easily be measured to observe any transition from nearfield to farfield response when combining them with point source drivers. The shorter ribbons (Fountek JP3.CD3, Aurum Cantus G2,etc) measure like point source domes at any normal listening distance.

Even the longer ribbons (4-6" elements) transition to the farfield pretty quickly but they do have a narrow vertical coverage area. Some people think the reduced ceiling and floor reflections give them better imaging. I would say that the sound is more focused but this is a matter of preference and it would depend on your listening environment.

Ribbons can be fragile but with proper handling I've not had any problems. Fountek recently introduced some new features that make them even better. With the right crossover point and slope very low levels of distortion can be achieved. In a line array the distortion is lower than that of many high quality amplifiers.

[Hantra]

I agree with most of the folks here who are saying not to limit yourself to one or the other.  Go out and listen to as much as you can.  

I hate ribbons.  Actually, I think most ribbons I have ever heard have an unnatural ring to them.  Rick's ribbon on the monitors is pretty good, but the only ribbon I have ever heard that I wanted to live with long term is the ribbon I have now in my Piegas.  No ringing, and probably the best highs and mids I have ever heard.  But it's quite a unique design, and it's unlike other ribbons that are out there.  

OTOH, I have heard remarkable things from some regular old Focal tweeters on some Wilsons, so I really wouldn't pick one or the other.  I'd go listen to as much as I could get my ears on. . .

[Rick Craig]

Nope... used as a line array they at least match the dispersion and wavefront of the array of drivers.   Of course line arrays are best far-field.   Only really long arrays don't have comb filtering effects the alter the seated to standing FR.   They are a rich man's speaker because you need lots of drivers & a big room.  

I'm not a fan of line arrays.   That is a taste thing to some degree.   They can sound good in large venues but typically don't in smaller domestic sized settings.

The listening distance is related to the length of the array. With a well-executed design you don't have to be a long distance from the arrays.

Comb filtering has nothing to do with the length of the array. For the woofers it's a result of the center-to-center spacing and crossover point / slope. For dome tweeters the spacing is also the main reason for comb filtering plus the high amount of interference between the domes. If ribbons are used it's different because they have less interaction in a line due to their reduced vertical output. Power tapering and crossover design can be used to alter the effect of going from a seated to standing position. I've found that a properly designed array of about 60" in length can provide good coverage for both seated and standing listeners for a listening distance of 7-20 feet.

Having a larger room helps but I've heard them in rooms as small as 12'x15' and the sound was excellent. Like any wide dispersion speaker they benefit from some breathing room when it comes to distance from side walls. One big advantage is that they load the room very evenly, much better than any point source speaker.

What arrays have you listened to?

Rick

[pacifico]

I wanted to thank you all for your comments. I did get a reasonable education after sifting through the posts. You efforts gave me a good feel of what I would be getting versus what I would like. I think ultimately, I will get ribbons when I can afford them. I listen when I am seated mostly. When I am up, I am not really paying attention to my stereo. I know that to some of you this seemed like a newbie question (which I am) but I also think this cleared the air for some others who may have wanted to ask but were afraid. With all of your help and a little homework on my part I am hoping to make a great sounding system in the coming months and years.

[Kevin P]

I'm sorry Rick.   I made some blanket statements and they were generalizations that were made tounge in cheek.    

I've never heard your speakers so I shouldn't generalize about them.   I've heard many other line arrays at CES, RMAF, MWAF & at various DIY events and never found one that really liked.   That may be a bias from my perspective.   I tend to like things that are simple to design (I'm kind of slow) and inexpensive to build.  

In term of ribbons most of the statements I made were based upon longer ribbons and once again where made tounge in cheek.   The smaller ribbons I've used had terrible power handling, where easy to damage (a stiff breeze is enought to damage them) and cost much more than a good quality dome.  

In terms of the subjective performance it really does come down to a personal opinion.   The distortion spectrum arguement is ok fromt the standpoint of being "true to the original" but in the end people have to enjoy what they buy.

[Rick Craig]

I'm sorry Rick.   I made some blanket statements and they were generalizations that were made tounge in cheek.    

I've never heard your speakers so I shouldn't generalize about them.   I've heard many other line arrays at CES, RMAF, MWAF & at various DIY events and never found one that really liked.   That may be a bias from my perspective.   I tend to like things that are simple to design (I'm kind of slow) and inexpensive to build.  

In term of ribbons most of the statements I made were bas ...

No problem. I understand ribbons and arrays aren't for everyone. The budget arrays I had at the MWAF really suffered from the dreadful rooms, in particular the last one they had in Lima.