Seagate 5 TB Internal Hard Drive For Bryston BDP-3 Digital Player - Review

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zoom25

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@JohnR that's unfortunate to hear. Did you get a replacement for it? For my purpose, I would not be using it for anything except for use with Bryston and MPD. Nothing else needed. No need for backups, transcoding, or RAID functionality. However, if it will struggle even in that role or have reliability problems, then it's not worth it.

@DarqueKnight How's the audible mechanical noise from both of those WD 6TB drive (7200 RPM) and the Seagate 5TB (5400 RPM) when placed within the Rosewill enclosure? For reference, I really like my portable 5400 RPM WD My Passport as they are near silent and you don't hear any seeking noise. The WD My Book 3.5" (7200 RPM) desktop counterpart are much noisier audibly.

The other thing I've been trying again today is DLNA renderer mode via Audirvana Plus. Have you tried DLNA mode vs. MPD with NAS?

JohnR

@JohnR that's unfortunate to hear. Did you get a replacement for it?
I'm still waiting for it to be replaced by the retailer under warranty.

Quote
For my purpose, I would not be using it for anything except for use with Bryston and MPD. Nothing else needed. No need for backups, transcoding, or RAID functionality. However, if it will struggle even in that role or have reliability problems, then it's not worth it.

One sample isn't statistically significant, of course, but I expect the models suggested by DarqueKnight would have better build quality.

bapcha

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Why does anyone here not call "BS" on the original poster? The Samsung SSDs have an uncorrectable bit rate error of 1 in 1e17

"Bits affecting other bits" is pure unadulterated crap

Bapcha
Also a NAND Flash expert

DarqueKnight

Why does anyone here not call "BS" on the original poster? The Samsung SSDs have an uncorrectable bit rate error of 1 in 1e17

"Bits affecting other bits" is pure unadulterated crap

Bapcha
Also a NAND Flash expert

If you really are a NAND flash expert, you should know that there will still be residual electrical noise in a storage device after noise abatement for data integrity has been accomplished. In other words,
you can have electrical noise in a data storage device that has audible effects, yet have bit perfect data transmission.

Also, your reading comprehension skills appear to be lacking. I never said "bits affect other bits". I specifically said:

"Cramming more memory cells into the same space means the memory cells are proportionally smaller...and more affected by the electrical noise in adjacent cells."

To reiterate, a storage device can have an astronomically low bit rate error, but still sound like crap in a high resolution stereo system due to the noise characteristics of the storage device.

DarqueKnight

@DarqueKnight How's the audible mechanical noise from both of those WD 6TB drive (7200 RPM) and the Seagate 5TB (5400 RPM) when placed within the Rosewill enclosure?

The other thing I've been trying again today is DLNA renderer mode via Audirvana Plus. Have you tried DLNA mode vs. MPD with NAS?

I have not tried DLNA vs. MPD with my NAS.

I hear no mechanical noise from either the WD 6TB or the Seagate 5TB. However, the WD 6TB drive did cause a low level hum in the wood cabinet it sits on. The hum
was eliminated by placing the enclosure's front and rear cradle feet on two 3.5" x 3.5"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads. I also have 1" x 2"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads under my Synology DS918+ NAS.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U92TE/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The 2.5" Seagate drive did not generate any audible hum due to its vibrations.

The Rosewill's fan is whisper quiet. I cannot hear it unless my ear is within one foot of it.

bapcha

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What part of 1 uncorrectable bit error out of 100,000,000,000,000,000 (1e17) bits do you NOT understand?

The residual electrical noise will NOT affect your music. Peter Lyngdorf agrees with me (digital is digital).
Please peddle your snake oil to idiots who do not understand digital or analog circuits (which is what you probably do anyway)

Sincerely,
Bapcha

If you really are a NAND flash expert, you should know that there will still be residual electrical noise in a storage device after noise abatement for data integrity has been accomplished. In other words,
you can have electrical noise in a data storage device that has audible effects, yet have bit perfect data transmission.

Also, your reading comprehension skills appear to be lacking. I never said "bits affect other bits". I specifically said:

"Cramming more memory cells into the same space means the memory cells are proportionally smaller...and more affected by the electrical noise in adjacent cells."

To reiterate, a storage device can have an astronomically low bit rate error, but still sound like crap in a high resolution stereo system due to the noise characteristics of the storage device.

DarqueKnight

What part of 1 uncorrectable bit error out of 100,000,000,000,000,000 (1e17) bits do you NOT understand?

The residual electrical noise will NOT affect your music. Peter Lyngdorf agrees with me (digital is digital).
Please peddle your snake oil to idiots who do not understand digital or analog circuits (which is what you probably do anyway)

Sincerely,
Bapcha

The Internet is not the proper place to work out your insecurities, self esteem, and anger issues.

I'm glad you have found someone who agrees with you. You should just talk to him rather than coming here hurling insults
and trying to bully people into agreeing with you.

zoom25

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I have not tried DLNA vs. MPD with my NAS.

I hear no mechanical noise from either the WD 6TB or the Seagate 5TB. However, the WD 6TB drive did cause a low level hum in the wood cabinet it sits on. The hum
was eliminated by placing the enclosure's front and rear cradle feet on two 3.5" x 3.5"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads. I also have 1" x 2"x 0.5" Sorbothane pads under my Synology DS918+ NAS.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0042U92TE/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The 2.5" Seagate drive did not generate any audible hum due to its vibrations.

The Rosewill's fan is whisper quiet. I cannot hear it unless my ear is within one foot of it.

That's good to know about the vibration and hum. Thanks.

zoom25

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Hi guys, I picked up a Synology DS119J for use with BDP and MPD mode. I haven't bought an internal hard drive for it yet. I was considering a WD Red 4TB. I will do that if the following plan doesn't work.

I remembered I have a spare 3.5" 500GB Hitachi hard drive lying inside an old Rogers PVR box. It's out of reach currently being locked with security Torx screws, but will have access to it soon. I was wondering if I could use that spare hard drive inside the Synology to run the OS and initial setup. Then I thought I could plug in my current My Passport hard drives to the USB port of the Synology and have the WD Passport drive accessible to the BDP for the music. Will this work? In the past with my old router, I've plugged my hard drives into its USB port and it was seen by the BDP and it worked fine. Will this also work on the Synology? Thanks!

JohnR

The ports are USB2 so at best it will be pretty slow.

zoom25

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The ports on the BDP-1 and my iMac are also USB 2.0 and the ethernet port on the BDP-1 is 100mbps. I never have problem for audio playback via Roon  or DLNA. I'm not looking to transfer music via this method, but just for playback pulling for MPD. It should still work right?

Perhaps anyone from Bryston could advice that may have experience with Synology?

EDIT: Found this: https://www.itwriting.com/blog/11217-review-synology-ds119j-great-system-but-single-bay-and-underpowered-hardware-make-it-worth-spending-a-bit-more.html

"If you attach a USB storage device to a port on the DS119j, it shows up automatically as usbshare1 on the network. This means that any USB drive becomes network storage, a handy feature, though only at USB 2.0 speed."


Looks like it should work.

ricmon

When you get through face-palming, eye-rolling, and looking surprised, the Samsung white paper at the link below may provide some useful information:

https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/global.semi.static/2bit_V-NAND_technology_White_Paper-1.pdf

Quoting from the above referenced white paper:

"Cell-to-cell interference
Technical challenges from continued shrinking arise when an
electrical charge in a cell flows into an adjacent cell creating cell-to-
cell interference, which leads to data corruption. When a cell
size goes below 20 nm, the chance for interference drastically
increases thereby making it unreliable."
(page 2)

and

"Samsung's V-NAND flash memory boasts a cell-to-cell
interference-free structure using Charge Trap Flash (CTF)
technology. The basis for CTF is a non-conductive layer of
silicon nitride (SiN) that temporarily traps electrical charges to
maintain cell integrity. This layer has been modified into a threedimensional
form that wraps around the control gate of the cell,
acting as an insulator that holds charges, thereby preventing
data corruption caused by cell-to-cell interference."
(page 2)

Therefore, Samsung claims to have mitigated the data corruption effects of
adjacent cell noise, but they have not gotten rid of the noise itself, which, of course, will increas
as the number of cells increases. Another source of electrical noise in SSDs and HDDs is the drive
controller circuitry, which does more work, and thereby generates more electrical noise, in larger capacity drives.

For a standard size 2.5" solid state drive designed to fit in laptops, the external/internal dimensions cannot change.
That means the memory cells themselves have to get proportionately smaller as cell capacity is doubled and quadrupled.
As cell density increases, so does the noise density of the drive.


Sorry dude all that may be true but I doubt if I can hear the difference.

Ric

zoom25

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Got the DS119J working. Tested from both the spare internal (hitachi ds7sac500 - 3.5" 7200RPM) and the USB attached My Passport into the NAS's USB 2.0 port. Working fine as expected. I have the NAS in the room, so might consider a quieter internal drive in the future. More importantly, I am worried about drives running all the time. Both the internal and the attached My Passport are spinning. MPD has finished updating the folder list. The NAS and BDP are connected to a separate spare router with it's wifi disabled. The only thing else connected to it is the iMac. There is no other activity going on. Any tips about what, if anything, I should do about those hard drives spinning all the time?

JohnR

I don't know about the external drive but the internal one will spin down, there's a setting for it somewhere in DSM.

zoom25

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I don't know about the external drive but the internal one will spin down, there's a setting for it somewhere in DSM.

Indeed. Yesterday, while I had it set up but hadn't added the music share to the BDP or added the portable in the back, the internal hard drive did go to sleep multiple times when I wasn't doing anything to it. So I know my internal hard drive works fine with sleep. Not sure what's the deal today. Is it because I have added the folders to the BDP's NAS list? Or is the external drive (running as NTFS from before) forcing itself and the internal to run constantly? I haven't added any apps or other features aside from the basic required setup.

JohnR

Sounds frustrating.. here's a post and thread from a while ago, Bryston says the BDP shouldn't prevent hibernation - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=132455.msg1404018#msg1404018

zoom25

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I've read that post. I've played around in the Control Panel -> Hardware & Power -> Hiberation

I've set both "internal and external sata" and "USB hard disks" to 15 minutes. I tried different numbers and power cycled the unit a few times.

The internal drive does spin down most of the time after not being in use. Today, there was a period of time where the internal just wouldn't spin down even after an hour. I power cycled it and it worked fine after. Let's see how the internal's behaviour holds up over time, but at least I know it works right.

The USB WD My Passport on the other hand attached to the NAS has always been on. It's always spinning. I turned off the BDP-1 and put my iMac to sleep to remove them from the equation. The internal went to sleep, but the WD My Passport spins non stop. When connected to iMac, it spins down correctly as it does when attached to the BDP-1's USB port directly. It's only with the Synology that it's giving me trouble.

What else can I do to fix the situation? Is it the formatting of the WD? It's a 4TB drive and shows two partition. One is vfat of 197 MB and the other is ntfs 3.7TB. I cannot have this drive run 24/7.

JohnR

I read somewhere that you need to exit DSM. Other than that, sorry but I have no idea :(

zoom25

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Yeah I quit every single app on the iMac. Nothing accessing the Synology. It's been spinning non-stop. I'm going to try another My Passport that is 2TB but is formatted in FAT32 for use with BDP-1. Perhaps that will have better luck. If that doesn't work, I might have to give in and buy an internal drive.  :duh:

If anyone has any other advice/experience, please let me know.

zoom25

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So the 2TB My Passport formatted in FAT worked fine and does go to sleep. Problem solved for now. Would still like to know what was the problem with the other 4TB portable drive. I have a few other WD portable and desktop drives that I might try to see whether they hibernate or not.