[BobM]

I'm looking at a list of low priced CD/SACD or universal players that I can mod. I've already done mods for the Toshiba SD4960 ($119) and found it to be very fine with about $75 in additional parts and some soldiering effort.
There are a few other low priced players out there that I bet will also benefit from some "adjustment". Here's some that I've found:

Sony DVP-NS775V ($119 at jandr.com)
Sony DVP-NS975V ($269)
Yamaha DVC6770 ($269)
Onkyo DV-SP502B ($269)

However, I want to find a unit that will still be purchasible in a year, not one that is discontinued and priced very low because of that. I also want one that sounds reasonably good (for the $$$) out of the box without known menu (which the SD4960 has), synching or other basic useability problems. It also needs to be real SACD, not downsampled. DVD-A is not essential, but would be nice.

Anyone have any experience or comments on any of these? Or perhaps other alternatives?

Thanks,
Bob

[soundboy]

Why not a straight SACD/CD player such as the Sony SCD-CE595?  The street price of this excellent player is now about $125.00.

[corwin99]

Bob,
I own the Sony DVP-NS775V and it is an okay player. It has a very good video presentation for the price tho, IMO. The SACD playback is not very good on the unit and this may be attributed to the lack of an SACD DAC in it. It converts the DSD stream to PCM and runs it thought the normal DAC, so the SACD performance is suspect. I'm not absolutely sure about this but i'm pretty sure. This is pretty common for really cheap SACD players apparently.

Nelson

[rbrb]

Check out this review of the CE775 and the comments about the CE595

http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/reviews/6moons.htm

[jonwb]

You may want to see what you can find in a used Denon DVD-2200.  Nice universal deck.  There will probably be a decent used market for this model for a while.  May be pushing your price range a bit though...

[jholtz]

I'm very interested in this also. I have a 963SA that I've decided not to mod after comparing it's performance as a transport to an old Sony S3000 that I have had for years. The stock Sony blew the 963SA  away badly and sounds wonderful, but redbook only. I'll save the money I was going to spend to mod the 963SA and apply it to a better player.

How about the Onkyo 502 or the Yamaha S1500? Both are universal players and around $300. I'll keep watching this thread both here and at AA to see what you come up with.

Jim

I'm looking at a list of low priced CD/SACD or universal players that I can mod. I've already done mods for the Toshiba SD4960 ($119) and found it to be very fine with about $75 in additional parts and some soldiering effort.
There are a few other low priced players out there that I bet will also benefit from some "adjustment". Here's some that I've found:

Sony DVP-NS775V ($119 at jandr.com)
Sony DVP-NS975V ($269)
Yamaha DVC6770 ($269)
Onkyo DV-SP502B ($269)

However, I want to find a unit that wil ...

[jholtz]

Nelson,

Are you sure about the DSD to PCM conversion? I read a post on one of the video boards, when searching for info on the NS775, that Modwright is going to be offering mods on the NS775 and said it was a killer unit. That seems to indicate the potential for much better audio, even with Sony's proprietary chips for SACD. They invented the format, didn't they?

The player seems to have exceptional video quality which is also important to me. I'd hoped to find a universal player but I may settle for another SACD unit if I can find one that does everything well at a low pricepoint.

Jim

Bob,
I own the Sony DVP-NS775V and it is an okay player. It has a very good video presentation for the price tho, IMO. The SACD playback is not very good on the unit and this may be attributed to the lack of an SACD DAC in it. It converts the DSD stream to PCM and runs it thought the normal DAC, so the SACD performance is suspect. I'm not absolutely sure about this but i'm pretty sure. This is pretty common for really cheap SACD players apparently.

Nelson

[_scotty_]

Bob,you should probably look at the JVC XV-N512S or XV-N510B. These are both DVD-A capable 6 channel out players.  They have an AKM dac similar to the one found in the ART-DIO . The AKM4358 is a differential out DAC with no internal opamp and it can be successfully used with the BB OPA 2134 differential input  which allows a direct coupled output . The output should be buffered by a LT1361 in the feedback loop of the 2134 for the best results.
 These players only cost $100.00 .  Scotty

[birdwizard]

Jim,
 I don't know what you like in a CD player, but my 963sa (Hungarian build) outplayed my MF A3, Heart 6000 (Siemens 6922), and Pioneer 45a in low level resolution, soundstage and overall musicality. It sounds best in 96khz upsample mode with the audio direct mode enabled. It took about 50 hours to smooth out and break in. Im very suprised at your results.
 Jason

[nickspicks]

I'll also chime in on the Philips 963.
$200-250 used.  Cant beat it.   I've owned one in the past, and I just picked up a used one because its the best all around deck for my needs.

Redbook playback is damn impressive
SACD playback smokes.  true DSD 1bit DAC in there.
Video is amazing.  Its a one box solution for all three vices.

Transport performance is not as good as a "great" transport, like from an older sony.  I tested one once against an older parasound transport and the parasound had it all over the Philips.  But these issues of jitter from a shitty transport can be addressed (if you have an external DAC).  If you are looking to run analog out, then I wouldn't worry too much about it.  As a package, it sounds wonderful.  FWIW, this is one of the only decks I know that passes the dithered/upsampled signal from a CD out its digital jacks as PCM.  So you can feed 24/192 PCM from redbook to a DAC.   I agree that it sounds best in 24/96 mode.

The Cheap Sony SACD/CD players might convert DSD to PCM, thus eliminating any sonic benefit from SACD over CD performance.  Look at the specs of all of these decks, you'll not hear mention of any SACD dedicated DAC but you will when it is available from other models.  Check out www.oade.com for a list of all of these Sonys and great info on features/specs..etc.   If you want a true DSD DAC in a cheap sony, then the SCD-2000ES is the only current one I know of.  I hear it sounds amazing on SACD, but sucks for redbook.  Its a 5 disc carosel tray unit.  ugh...  Its $250 new.

How about an older Sony DVP-9000ES ?  Top notch SACD and redbook.  BEEFY transport, great video, about $500 used and plentiful.    

Another one is the Onkyo 802.  I hear that sounds just as good as the sony's for SACD but smokes them for redbook.  I'm reffering to the cheap decks and the 2000es.

[soundboy]

It converts the DSD stream to PCM and runs it thought the normal DAC, so the SACD performance is suspect. I'm not absolutely sure about this but i'm pretty sure. This is pretty common for really cheap SACD players apparently.

While the Pioneer 578 universal player converts DSD to PCM, there is no evidence that ANY Sony SACD capable player, no matter what their price is, convert DSD to PCM.  And not even the Toshiba and Samsung universal players do that.  I have had my $150.00 Sony SCD-CE595 for about 5 months now, and it impresses me more and more each day.  You can also read such glowing praises from websites such as audioasylum.com, head-fi.org, stevehoffman.tv, and of course, the review of the actual player at the below link....

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0205/sonyscdce595.htm

BTW, the DSD DAC for the Sony SCD-CE595 is a custom-made Burr-Brown.

[Jose Garcia]

Bob...

I just read about the TLR Sony 595 and the review on the 775 ( 6Moon). The 595 is considered to be a better player after mods.

I bought the Sony SCD-C2000ES about 5 month ago and this unit is very good on Redbook and SACD . It can be bought for about $249.00 and I know someone who was intending to modify them because it's performance.

Check them out.

Take care,

Jose.

[nickspicks]

While the Pioneer 578 universal player converts DSD to PCM, there is no evidence that ANY Sony SACD capable player, no matter what their price is, convert DSD to PCM.  And not even the Toshiba and Samsung universal players do that.  I have had my $150.00 Sony SCD-CE595 for about 5 months now, and it impresses me more and more each day.  You can also read such glowing praises from websites such as audioasylum.com, head-fi.org, stevehoffman.tv, and of course, the review of the actual player at the below link. ...

you might be right.  I know there certainly are some SACD decks that do this.
Another thing about DSD dacs.
from what I understand, there are 1bit and multi-bit...usualy 4.... All of the high-end SACD players (SACD-1, 9000es) from Sony have used this 1bit DAC.  Perhaps its the multi-bit DSD DACs in their less expensive models?
i'm trying to find out from my Sony dealer just exactly what the fact are here.

[corwin99]

there is no evidence that ANY Sony SACD capable player, no matter what their price is, convert DSD to PCM.

Like i said, I wasn't sure of this... but I cracked open both my Sony SACD capable players, and while my 555ES has a large chip on it labelled DSD which i assumed was the SACD DAC (i've seen it in several sony SACD players) the NS775V did not have any such chip. This may not mean that it does this DSD to PCM conversion however.

-neL

[jholtz]

Bob,

After spending the weekend with the NS775, I'd put my vote in for it. SACD is darn good and after looking under the hood, it appears that this would be easy to mod. The NS975 and NS775 are identical except for the HDMI output and up conversion of the video signal so what ever audio mods you did to the NS775 would also apply to the NS975. The NS775 easily equaled the picture quality of my Faroudja based 963SA. The NS775 is a really nice player. I paid $116 locally.

My $.02 worth...

Jim

I'm looking at a list of low priced CD/SACD or universal players that I can mod. I've already done mods for the Toshiba SD4960 ($119) and found it to be very fine with about $75 in additional parts and some soldiering effort.
There are a few other low priced players out there that I bet will also benefit from some "adjustment". Here's some that I've found:

Sony DVP-NS775V ($119 at jandr.com)
Sony DVP-NS975V ($269)
Yamaha DVC6770 ($269)
Onkyo DV-SP502B ($269)

However, I want to find a unit that wil ...

[nickspicks]

from what I have read on Oades taper forum, the NS975 has two audio paths...and you can modify each one differently to give yourself two "flavors" of sound.
That is something that Doug offers w/this deck when you purchase it through their store.

that is a pretty cool approach, imo.

You know...its awesome..and we are fortunate to have such GREAT sound available to us for such cheap prices.  Today's $250 deck buys you sound that used to cost MUCH more not 5 years ago.
its amazing....

Will technology render "hi-end" obsolete?  It very well could, and I think we are seeing it happen in products like these Sony decks, the ES and other digital amps, etc.

[Jose Garcia]

My Sony SCD-C2000ES uses 3 chips labeled " BB DSD-1751".... this should not be confuced with the others BB1751, used into the Toshibas ( 3950, 3960) .

Could anyone verify the chips used in the other Sony models discussed here?

Thanks,

Jose.

[jholtz]

I think he's referring to a switchable filter that is built into the NS775 and NS975 that Sony includes on these models. According to the manual, it switches a digital filter on/off above 22K Hz. I've left mine at the "sharp" setting as they put it and it sounds very good.

HTH

Jim

from what I have read on Oades taper forum, the NS975 has two audio paths...and you can modify each one differently to give yourself two "flavors" of sound.
That is something that Doug offers w/this deck when you purchase it through their store.

that is a pretty cool approach, imo.

You know...its awesome..and we are fortunate to have such GREAT sound available to us for such cheap prices.  Today's $250 deck buys you sound that used to cost MUCH more not 5 years ago.
its amazing....

Will technolog ...

[AphileEarlyAdopter]

Jim,
Could you compare the sound of the NS775 versus the 963SA ?
I used my 963SA as a CD transport and as a SACD player.
I am not still not convinced that SACD sounds that differently better.
I have isolation (Vibrapod cones), balanced power conditioner and a VHAudio cryoed power cord on the 963SA.

[jholtz]

Here's my take on the two. The I think the NS775 is a little better with SACD and redbook than the 963SA and a whole lot better transport. It's not until you compare them head to head as transports that the differences become appearent. That said, my old slightly modded Sony S3000 is better than either as a transport by a fair margin.

I ordered some Blackgate caps and Audiocap RTX bypasses tonight for the NS775 so we'll see what differences a few caps make. This will be a very minimal mod aimed strictly at 2-channel SACD playback. The 963SA is no longer operational due to a mod gone bad    so I can't compare but I lived with it for almost two years and remember it quite well. BTW, anyone want a 963SA for parts cheap? It has a perfect transport that is silent.

Jim

Jim,
Could you compare the sound of the NS775 versus the 963SA ?
I used my 963SA as a CD transport and as a SACD player.
I am not still not convinced that SACD sounds that differently better.
I have isolation (Vibrapod cones), balanced power conditioner and a VHAudio cryoed power cord on the 963SA.