AC mains noise. Borrowed "Blue Horizon Mains Noise Analyser" and started poking!

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Elizabeth

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I borrowed this AC line noise sniffing device today. (Do not ask from where, I do not feel at ease saying.added Dealer says OK to mention, so Audio Emporium Brown Deer Wisc. Milwaukee area) It measures AC line noise with a numeric readout of "000" to "999" Over is just "MAX"
So first test was kitchen light with wall plug. "784" pretty normal reading.
Kitchen outlet tied to refrigerator (frig running) "MAX" (over 1000)
Bedroom wall nothing around in use "220" wow good number.

Furutech Duplex at amplifier "013*" WHAT!!!! yes "013". That is on a direct 44 ft extension cord from 20 amp wall outlet (also Furutech)   ((*with the AC plug on the noise sniffer, a C7 to the noise sniffer one way, it is 13, other way it is 20. ALL the measurements change with reversing the noise sniffer AC plug, about the same amount each time))
That amplifier cord extension does have an additional Furutech duplex on the cord, five feet back of amp (Furutech duplex) end, and that middling duplex has two PS Audio Noise Harvesters. The wiring is a quad twist. and each side or pair is connected to one out side. so each Noise Harvester is on one half of the quad.
So I can say the PS Audio Noise Harvesters really DO a fantastic job!!!

The other similar line (from he same 20 amp outlet) does not have any Noise Harvesters on it. And with the stereo running, it has "297" noise level. However IF I do stick one PS Audio Noise harvester in an outlet 3 feet back of the one the sniffer is in. The noise drops to "143". (I cannot leave the Noise Harvester or a pair in there due to it being in use, normally, plus adding them in  where the noise sniffer is, seems to make the sound go too thin.)

Another major discovery is just HOW NOISY Digital equipment really is!!! I have my two CD changers plugged into a separate power conditioner. A PS Audio P-600.
Testing the PS Audio P-600 I own (tested at 60Hz where usually I use it at 110Hz)  With nothing turned on plugged into the P-600 the baseline noise is "040" With one five disc CD changer turned on the noise level jumps up to "740" With the other one only on the nose is also "740" with both on the noise jumps over "MAX" This is with a PS Audio Noise Harvester plugged into the same duplex (on the back of the P-600) as the CD changer!
On the other hand.. The Marantz SA-10 is plugged into the Furman (also with a PS Audio Noise Harvester in same duplex and that area is "032". So SOME equipment is not spewing, and some is. Added: I remeasured the Furman outlet and it was at only "013" while music is playing... The "032" was all equipment on, but no music playing.

This is all I have learned in a half hour of fooling around.
« Last Edit: 5 Feb 2019, 07:44 pm by Elizabeth »

artur9

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Another major discovery is just HOW NOISY Digital equipment really is!!!

Yeah, I think digital equipment engineers are taught that all that noise has no effect so they do not mitigate any of it.  Analog engineers I've worked with have been contemptuous of that attitude.

I'm curious as to what your findings would be with a switching power supply or a Class D amplifier.

Elizabeth

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From the difference in he mid fi CD changers (also 25 years old..) and the $7000 Marantz SA-10. The Marantz is adding no garbage on the AC line. Where the CD changers are.
So I would say the implementation and filtering (both incoming and outgoing AC matter. So even a typical polluter device might have clean AC lines if they put in some good filters!

Elizabeth

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Ok did all the baseline measurements.                 
At wall, nothing plugged in a 20amp single on a separate breaker: Noise "724" .That line is one phase sharing common neutral with other phase 20 amp for refrigerator. I wondered how much of a problem that ’common neutral’ made. Well almost zero!           
The stereo line at wall with frig ’on’ noise "724" (frig off ’710’ frig break off noise "711" so the frig is a non starter of a problem. VERY good to know.)             
Plugging in the two lines made up of 12 gauge MilSpec silver plated quad twist Teflon 600V wire. grounds run between the two quads. 34 feet and 44 feet to stereo area. From the noise readings, it is clear the quad twist all by itself is removing a good amount of the hash from the line.             
At the 34’ line end Furutech duplex (no Noise Harvesters) noise "432" With two PS Audio Noise Harvesters in line a few feet ahead of duplex measured at, noise "006"         
The other line for the amp at 44’ (With two Noise Harvesters in a duplex four feet from the measured duplex) the noise level "001"(amp not plugged in. for those tests nothing was plugged into any outlests except the Noise Harvesters.           
So outstanding noise reduction from the wall ("724") down to ("006") and ("001") on my dedicated line from the wall to the stereo.               
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++           
Plugging in the PS Audio P-600 power regenerator to the 34’ line changed the measurement at the Furutech outlet to "036" with P-600 ’on’ (nothing in use via P-600) With TWO CD changers also ON via the P-600 the noise at the Furutech 34’ outlet changed to "040" So I consider that wonderful performance. None (well ,very little to me is as good as none) of the considerable previously measured noise from the CD players is getting BACK to the outlet via the PA Audio P-600 regenerator.               
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++           
Adding the Furman power conditioner OFF nothing plugged into the Furman noise measured at the same 34’ line Duplex "063" PLUS AM radio noise on the test instrument. (the PS Audio was also already plugged in and ON for this test. so the Furman alone added only ((023)) on it’s own to the noise level.  When I turned ON the Furman REF 20 the noise dropped to "035" No AM radio noise anymore. (again, this is with the PS Audio plugged in too, so the Furman ON lowered the noise floor below what the PS Audio added. plus the Furman ON removed the AM radio noise on the line.)             
With Furman all electronics plugged on but those not turned on, only Furman turned on. At the 34" duplex noise measured "042"         
With all normal stereo equipment turned on the 34’ duplex measurement was noise "036" The items on included several preamps, and the Mrantz SA-10. (not turned on two Denon DVD players, The plasma TV. the Kuzma TT motor power supply I did not measure for those)             
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++           
Small Adcom conditioner used for little stuff plugged in (with both big conditioners on at the 34’ duplex noise "060" plus AM radio noise.I removed the Adcom and substituted a Monster 5600 I own in it’s place, The Monster on with nothing plugged in gave at 34’ duplex "045" ... With all stuff plugged in in use (including the cable co boxes) measured at 34’ duplex "054" So I am leaving the Monster in            use.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++           
Finally my Audio Research SP-15 I had left plugged in at the 34’ box mainly due to the short cord. With it plugged in at the 34’ box at the 34’ box both conditioners in and on measured noise with Sp-15 in not ON "082" plus AM radio noise. ARC SP-15 ON measured "081" no AM radio noise. I removed the ARC SP-15 from that location and put back with extension cord to Furman. I did not measure anything when I did this. 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
as of now, my Rega turntable power supply wall wart sits with no place to plugin. Orphaned when I decided to plug the two PS Audio Noise Harvesters into that spot it had used...   
Also I do not notice the downside of using the additional Noise Harvesters in the 34’ line. Previously I had them AT the two duplex on the end of the line. This time I moved them to the single duplex at the 31’ point.on the 34' line.. similar to the amplifier line. Why this matters??? seems to.   
I have no magic comments on this stuff at this time. I just wanted to report the numbers.     

Elizabeth

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I am very happy with all those numbers. The Rega wall wart can be connected to the Monster with a small extension cord (have to get one)
My biggest offenders are the power supply for the laptop charger, and the recliner motor power supply.
The laptop was move from the stereo when I first got the PS Audio Noise Harvesters. I could see it made them go crazy. So I move it to a wall duplex not used for the stereo. The chair deice in only 13 as bad. I have not removed it, but is on the Monster. not the stero power conditioners. I am surprised the internet cable boxes do not add much junk.
The plasma TV is a big junk adder. but only when turned on. So I do not care. Ditto the DVD players. They too only on when the plasma is on. I never even measured them.
I was also surprised at the Sp-15 AM radio noise on the line, but it has an open screen top and bottom on both the ower supply and the actual preamp. So lots of places for that noise to gain access. I should check to see in the refrigerator mats under those Sp-15 boxes do any good!

Elizabeth

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Listening.. I am listening to Joni Mitchell. "Court and Spark" It is a "Target" CD. (earliest CDs made in Germany or Japan, said they 'sound better' and command more money to find used. I lucked into this one for a buck in the trash dollar bin at Half Price)
Anyway, her vocals which I had just listened to last night sound clearer now. I attribute this to the two added PS Audio Noise Harvesters on the Furman line.
I had tried them on it before, but they were on the same duplex pair as the Furman .and did not sound good. This time I put them three feet ahead, on a duplex U had used for other stuff.
And the sound is good. Why the different spot matters ??????????
Anyway, Joni vocals clearer, and on song with backing vocals they are spectacularly clearer.
Just changed to Susan Vega.. Her voice seems about the same. (but her recordings are always clearer anyway.) Her guitar is more detailed. I can hear each string being touched...
The entire presentation is more 'forward' than previously.
Also I went back to a DH Labs/Furutech plug power cord for the Furman.Thais cord is fuzzier, and stronger mids, vs the Pangea AC14XL which is leaner but more detail.
So even with the fuzzier sounding DH Labs.. more detail.
(I am often swapping back and forth between these two cords)

Elizabeth

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One other thing.. The PS Audio Noise Harvesters clearly are removing noise EVEN WHEN NOT BLINKING.
IT does seem they would be only removing noise if blinking.. Nope, They can go without blinking at all and still are lowering the noise by "150" to "200" each... no blinking I can see. (they may be discharging the diode rather subliminally? I would guess.)
« Last Edit: 4 Feb 2019, 06:56 pm by Elizabeth »

rollo

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  Thanks Elizabeth very informative. Did you ever try just un-grounding the 5 disc changer ?


charles

Elizabeth

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  Thanks Elizabeth very informative. Did you ever try just un-grounding the 5 disc changer ?


charles
The changers are two prong captive originally. I cut those cords at the back and soldered on a IEC so I can use aftermarket power cords... but the ground pin of the soldered on IEC remains unused.
I have thought of adding an internal AC choke or small 1:1 transformer to the five disc changers to help kill the garbage dumped into the AC line.. But so far it is just thought experiments.