Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 2094 times.

holman

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 19
Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« on: 30 Jan 2019, 02:44 am »
Interested to know what type speaker cables, silver or copper folks are using with Omega speakers and a SET amp set up. Any pros or cons to one or the other.

Canada Rob

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1063
    • Industry Participant
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #1 on: 30 Jan 2019, 04:17 am »
For SET to Omegas I've found basic OFC copper cables work very well.  QED Profile 79 Strand and the Supra cable that Louis uses in his speakers would be a good choice.  In fact, I believe Louis is now selling speaker cable so I would contact him.  Another good choice would be Zenwave cables, as I understand Dave has voiced his cables with SET and Omega.

Louis O

Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #2 on: 30 Jan 2019, 02:02 pm »
Hi holman,

Thanks for your post. I agree with Canada Rob 100%. I use Supra as my internal cable, and they are a great cable at a great value. My Favorite cable is Zenwave, and Dave makes the best. They are terrific with all my speakers.

Thanks again,
Louis

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #3 on: 30 Jan 2019, 02:37 pm »
Another good choice would be Zenwave cables, as I understand Dave has voiced his cables with SET and Omega.

Yes. ZenWave cables are amazing and I very highly recommend them also. But I don't think Dave would agree with you that he "voiced" his cables whatsoever. The goal of his cables is resolution, transparency, and neutrality. Stepping up in the line, one gets more of each of these factors to varying degrees. It is best to contact Dave as he'll help you choose what is best for your system and budget. He really knows his stuff.

Canada Rob

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1063
    • Industry Participant
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #4 on: 31 Jan 2019, 02:13 am »
But I don't think Dave would agree with you that he "voiced" his cables whatsoever.

Merriam Webster Dictionary:
VOICE verb
voiced; voicing
One of the descriptions is: "to adjust for producing the proper musical sounds"

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #5 on: 31 Jan 2019, 05:05 am »
Merriam Webster Dictionary:
VOICE verb
voiced; voicing
One of the descriptions is: "to adjust for producing the proper musical sounds"

Exactly. As I said, ZenWave cables do not "voice" ie "adjust the sound." This would go against ZenWave's goals of accuracy, clarity, and neutrality. Per the ZenWave website:

The cables ZenWave builds are neutral and accurate, with the goal of achieving the highest fidelity possible without introducing any artifacts such as harshness, glare or distortion that could cause listening fatigue. ZenWave’s highest end cables are reference level cables, meaning they are as clear, accurate and neutral as possible, so you can hear more of the music.

Maybe we're talking semantics here, but if you believe a cable's goal is to pass the signal as accurately and as voiceless as possible, then a cable that is used to adjust the original signal is one that is adding distortion, a voice.

Canada Rob

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1063
    • Industry Participant
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #6 on: 31 Jan 2019, 07:06 pm »
Exactly. As I said, ZenWave cables do not "voice" ie "adjust the sound." This would go against ZenWave's goals of accuracy, clarity, and neutrality. Per the ZenWave website:

The cables ZenWave builds are neutral and accurate, with the goal of achieving the highest fidelity possible without introducing any artifacts such as harshness, glare or distortion that could cause listening fatigue. ZenWave’s highest end cables are reference level cables, meaning they are as clear, accurate and neutral as possible, so you can hear more of the music.

Maybe we're talking semantics here, but if you believe a cable's goal is to pass the signal as accurately and as voiceless as possible, then a cable that is used to adjust the original signal is one that is adding distortion, a voice.

Are you more concerned with being right, or with the OP's question?


RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #7 on: 31 Jan 2019, 08:22 pm »
Are you more concerned with being right, or with the OP's question?

Rob, you're the one that recommended ZenWave, which is GREAT. Dave builds cables of various construction and metals (beyond silver and copper) to achieve his product performance goals at various price points. However you misrepresented them in a bad way, unintentionally, which could mislead the OP. If you don't see that, then that's on you. Sorry.

Holman, I highly suggest sending Dave a private message or give him a call. He's awesome to work with and won't steer you wrong. He will be more than happy to explain the different performance parameters of different metals (in his cables) to help you find the best fit for your system and budget.

Canada Rob

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 1063
    • Industry Participant
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #8 on: 31 Jan 2019, 09:53 pm »
Rob, you're the one that recommended ZenWave, which is GREAT. Dave builds cables of various construction and metals (beyond silver and copper) to achieve his product performance goals at various price points. However you misrepresented them in a bad way, unintentionally, which could mislead the OP. If you don't see that, then that's on you. Sorry.

Holman, I highly suggest sending Dave a private message or give him a call. He's awesome to work with and won't steer you wrong. He will be more than happy to explain the different performance parameters of different metals (in his cables) to help you find the best fit for your system and budget.

All audio gear has a voice, be it cables, amps speakers, etc.  To deny it, is to deny the basic laws of electricity and physics.  I didn't misrepresent anyone or anything, including Zenwave.  I didn't realize I would catch so much flak for recommending Daves cables.  Maybe I'll not recommend his product in the future being I misrepresent it anyway.

I'm done with this thread, nor will I read any more posts here.
« Last Edit: 2 Feb 2019, 04:37 pm by Canada Rob »

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #9 on: 31 Jan 2019, 11:10 pm »
Yes. It is understood that all components in the chain will affect the signal in some way. But the way you worded it (and provided definition) made it sound as though ZenWave intentionally alters, i.e. "voices" the signal (via cabling), which simply isn't the case. Other cable manufacturers definitely do this. This is a horrible idea and a slippery slope that only makes building a system, using such cabling, more complicated. I like Dave and his products and wouldn't want him or his products lumped in with these other types of manufacturers. I think Omegas are exceptional speakers and are well above similar peers. As such, I would defend misrepresentative statements made about Omegas too. You sold Omegas for several years, so I'm surprised you don't understand my point of view, Rob.

So...if you're saying that ZenWave cables are voiced for transparency, I would agree with you. This is also to say the cables are not intended to have a voice. Both statements are true. Like I said, I think we're arguing semantics. Not sure why you're so offended. Is it the polar vortex? If so, I'm with you.
« Last Edit: 1 Feb 2019, 02:14 am by RDavidson »

maxima95

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 149
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #10 on: 31 Jan 2019, 11:57 pm »
It is unfortunate that two people are arguing about something that only Dave can answer.

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #11 on: 1 Feb 2019, 02:45 am »
I feel it's more of a misunderstanding than anything else. It's fine. Respectful discussion, even if heated a bit, isn't a bad thing. Learning can come from it if folks can keep calm enough.

maxima95

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 149
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #12 on: 1 Feb 2019, 04:34 pm »
Regardless of your characterization of the exchange, only Dave can address the issue as to whether or how his cables are voiced.

RDavidson

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2506
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #13 on: 2 Feb 2019, 07:11 am »
Regardless of your characterization of the exchange, only Dave can address the issue as to whether or how his cables are voiced.

OK. I consider Dave a friend. He and I chat from time to time, and have worked on a couple of projects together (not cable related). I will notify him of this thread.
« Last Edit: 2 Feb 2019, 03:09 pm by RDavidson »

OzarkTom

Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #14 on: 2 Feb 2019, 08:45 am »
Zenware is the best I have ever heard. I was on a tour cnce I wish I could afford some.  SS checks do mot go very far. Silver to me sounds too bright.

DaveC113

  • Industry Contributor
  • Posts: 4063
  • ZenWaveAudio.com
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #15 on: 2 Feb 2019, 07:30 pm »
Thanks for the support everyone, it is appreciated!  :)

I'd agree the disagreement here is mostly semantic, it's difficult to use language to describe things we haven't fully defined and measured. As far as what I understand the terms to mean, everyone is correct.

I have 2 speakers with Omega drivers including my own and the Pioneer S-1EX, which use the same drivers as the TAD Evolution towers in a more economical cabinet. So, that's what I use to test cables.

I do go for neutrality but aspects of that nebulous term are system dependent, and others really are not...

Resolution remains the same system to system. Tone does not. In general, the better the resolution the closer to neutral you are in terms of tone, but sometimes resolution comes with unpleasant side effects in either the cable or what it reveals which people seem to describe as "HiFi" or "too much detail". However, these terms are wrong, HiFi is good, that's the entire goal of this hobby and there is no such thing as too much detail. In any case, the capabilities of a cable to resolve detail doesn't really vary from system to system but tone does, and every cable maker has to decide how to handle this issue. This is where a test system is going to make a difference and where all cables are "voiced" to a degree. However, the overall goal of tonal voicing can be to either color things to achieve the designer's personal preference or it can be to achieve a tone that is considered correct, natural and what you'd expect to hear IRL. My goals are the latter, but the truth is it's impossible to achieve in every system with the exact same cable. This is why I offer a D5 level IC cable, it's both more expensive AND less resolving vs the D4, but it's warmer, and achieves this warmth using gold rather than copper, so it's more expensive but more resolving vs copper.

Finally, a system with a SET amp and paper drivers like most Omega systems is naturally warm and allows the use of very resolving cables rather than cables that are voiced warmer to achieve proper tone. Also warm is easy and cheap, that is the compromise I make when going down the line from the D4 IC cable, the D3 is warmer and less resolving but costs much less. This also tracks with the natural requirements of less expensive systems, D4s are fairly ruthless in revealing detail and unless you have a high end system you may not want this.

And for the OP, I'd go with the Omega Supra Cables, my SL 17g UPOCC copper cables, or my SMSG 20g OCC silver/gold alloy cables depending on budget. IC cables are a bit more critical and overall less expensive so I'd favor IC cables a bit over SCs in your budget.

doggie

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 384
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #16 on: 13 Feb 2019, 11:42 am »
Interested to know what type speaker cables, silver or copper folks are using with Omega speakers and a SET amp set up. Any pros or cons to one or the other.

You can gather a lot of testimonials here. Some opinions will be knowledgeable and others may have expected bias however nothing will beat trying some cables in your own system. All cables have resistance, capacitance, and inductance. A given cable will react differently with different associated equipment. This is more like cooking than math. Then there is also break/burn in...

Find some well regarded cables from a vendor with a generous return policy and give them a try. Paying for return postage will be much cheaper than reselling a used cable!

Omegas are wonderful speakers and deserve good cables but good do not necessarily have to be expensive.
« Last Edit: 13 Feb 2019, 08:53 pm by doggie »

FireGuy

Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #17 on: 13 Feb 2019, 02:16 pm »
Omegas are wonderful speakers and deserve good cables but good does not necessarily have to be expensive.

I so agree.  FWIW and not to perpetuate the cable argument, I've tried good cables (mucho dinero $$) and Monoprice 12 Awg.  Double blind tests ta boot and guess what?  NO DIFFERENCE to be heard on my Super 5's.

rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 4488
  • Rollo Audio Where Home demo rules
Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #18 on: 13 Feb 2019, 04:14 pm »
You can gather a lot of testimonials here. Some opinions will be knowledgeable and others may have expected bias however nothing will beat trying some cables in your own system. All cables have resistance, capacitance, and inductance. A given cable will react differently with different associated equipment. This is more like cooking than math. Then there is also break/burn in...

Find some well regarded cables from a vendor with a generous return policy and give them a try. Paying for return postage will be much cheaper than reselling a used cable!

Omegas are wonderful speakers and deserve good cables but good does not necessarily have to be expensive.

  Correct and VG advice. One size does not fit all. Try as many as you can.


charles

Rj67

Re: Omega & SET speaker cables silver or copper?
« Reply #19 on: 28 Jul 2019, 02:37 am »
Resurrecting this one since I just picked up a pair of Super 8 Monitors.  The recommendation on the Supra cables; Ply 3.4 or the Swords?

And it doesn’t look like Louis is selling these now?