6922 based preamps

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mresseguie

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6922 based preamps
« on: 9 Jan 2019, 01:55 pm »
I’m curious to know what you think a 6922-based tube preamp does for your music. What are its strong points? What are its weak points? If you want to compare it to another tube, go for it.

I ask this because I recently bought a Taiwanese manufactured 6922eh tube preamp, which is still breaking in, and I wonder what others think.

Once mine has another 75 to 100 hours burn in, I’ll let you know how it sounds.

Thank you,

Michael

marvda1

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #1 on: 9 Jan 2019, 02:05 pm »
 nos tubes in that family tend to get expensive real fast.

S Clark

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #2 on: 9 Jan 2019, 02:33 pm »
It was the tube of choice for the late Gary Dodd in all of his preamps.  In most circuits the Russian equivalents work well and sound pretty darn good. 
There are lots of options that are not especially pricey; even the J.J.'s are decent. 

dminches

Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #3 on: 9 Jan 2019, 02:37 pm »
It was the tube of choice for the late Gary Dodd in all of his preamps.  In most circuits the Russian equivalents work well and sound pretty darn good. 
There are lots of options that are not especially pricey; even the J.J.'s are decent.

In my experience even an inexpensive set of NOS 6922s sound better than JJs.  If I buy equipment that comes with JJs the first thing I do is replace them.

mresseguie

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #4 on: 9 Jan 2019, 02:54 pm »
Assuming I haven't misremembered, the 6922 tubes in my new preamp are Sovteks.

I'm not looking for a debate on differences between tube manufacturers BTW. I'm interested in forming a general impression of how 6922 preamps sound.

S Clark

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #5 on: 9 Jan 2019, 03:08 pm »
In my experience even an inexpensive set of NOS 6922s sound better than JJs.  If I buy equipment that comes with JJs the first thing I do is replace them.
Good.  Then send them to Michael since you aren't using them.  I think they sound balanced with decent detail.  If they have a weakness, I think it's sound stage. 
I'm not familiar with the Sovtek's 6922- but I'm not a fan of their  6H30Pi tube. 
As far as sound, Dodd preamps are considered open, detailed, and revealing.  Some want them a bit more colored.  Probably a cap choice thing.  They are VERY responsive to tube rolling. Don't know if that applies to all 6922 preamps.  Perhaps others will chime in on the sound of other 6922 pre's. 

richidoo

Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #6 on: 9 Jan 2019, 03:31 pm »
6922 is very powerful tube. It can source lots of current, so you won't have any problem driving a difficult amp/cable load.
And it sounds really good - mostly neutral, with a little weight, imo.
1970s Matsushita is excellent, but I would get the new Gold Lions.

dminches

Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #7 on: 9 Jan 2019, 03:34 pm »
I’m curious to know what you think a 6922-based tube preamp does for your music. What are its strong points? What are its weak points? If you want to compare it to another tube, go for it.

I ask this because I recently bought a Taiwanese manufactured 6922eh tube preamp, which is still breaking in, and I wonder what others think.

Once mine has another 75 to 100 hours burn in, I’ll let you know how it sounds.

Thank you,

Michael

For $100 you can get a nice pair of vintage tubes that will sound much better than the Electro Harmonix tubes they sent with the preamp.

To me, most current production Russian and Chinese tubes are pretty poor sounding.

mresseguie

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #8 on: 9 Jan 2019, 03:53 pm »
It's pushing midnight here, but I thought I'd list the gear in my system in Taiwan before I hit the sack.

Source is my MacBook Pro (CDs in my SSD or Tidal) or my wife's MacBook Air => dB Audio Labs Tranquility SE DAC => Arriba 6922 pre => Nuprime ST-10 amp => Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R two-way monitors + TWL speaker cables + SAS V RCA ICs. Everything is plugged into my PI Audio MiniBUSS and a TWL 10+ American PC. I've also got a 1200AS2 amp in a Takachi case that I'll try once I change the output from balanced to single-ended.

I brought my Tranquility DAC this time to replace the Gustard X20u DAC. Someone has offered to buy the X20u, so I will take it back to the US when I return. I think I'm done upgrading my audio system here.

orientalexpress

Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #9 on: 9 Jan 2019, 03:58 pm »
if you in USA,i could loan you a pair of amperex gold pint 6922 to try it out,before you spend money on them.


lap

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #10 on: 9 Jan 2019, 04:27 pm »
I’m curious to know what you think a 6922-based tube preamp does for your music. What are its strong points? What are its weak points? If you want to compare it to another tube, go for it. ....
Michael
I feel a lot depends on your system/room. The 6922 family can be pretty ruthless, so if your room is lively with hard floors and reflective surfaces the system will probably sound bright. If your room is more damped or you're using tube amplifiers (I see you're not) it can sound well balanced with excellent detail retrieval. As mentioned several times, good ones have become expensive but make a large difference.

I started with 6922 in my preamp but have moved slowly away.  I mostly use 12au7, and 5687 for preamps now. When I return to the 6922 it always sounds good at first, but over a couple days I get fatigued.

avahifi

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #11 on: 9 Jan 2019, 06:28 pm »
Of course a 5687 or 12AU7 tube is going to sound different than a 6922 tube.  The first two have an amplification factor of 20 or less, while the 6922 has a gain of 33.

All other things being equal, in a feedback circuit the 5687 or 12AU7 will have less feedback and thus higher harmonic distortion than a 6922.

Whether this is a good idea or not depends upon the circuit design and what the designer intended.

One can learn quite a bit about how a tube type will behave simply by looking at and understanding its specification sheet.

By the way, how did you substitute 12AU7 tubes for 6922 tubes in the same circuit? The 12AU7 requires a 12V filament supply, the 6922 a 6V filament supply.

Frank

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #12 on: 9 Jan 2019, 07:18 pm »
Frank,  no argument with anything you're saying or flames toward 6922 preamps. I use 6922 variants when I use my Berning transformer coupled amp which has lower gain and is ever so slightly soft on top compared to my SS amplifier. I was going to mention gain differences but it didn't seem necessary based on his description of his system.

I've had different tube preamps over the years but use this now, which allows rolling through most of the commonly used preamp tubes.  Many more tube boards available than those being shown.
http://www.musicaldesign.com/MC_Cham.html

Photon46

Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #13 on: 10 Jan 2019, 12:07 am »
I've got a PS Audio BHK preamp that lets you switch between 12au7 and 6922 family tubes simply by moving a jumper to change voltage to the tubes, so it's a good platform to evaluate what contribution each particular tube make to the sound of the preamp. I've got a pretty good assortment of NOS 6922 family tubes and a half dozen or so pairs 12au7 family tubes. Without getting boringly detailed, I'd say there's so much variation in the sound of each family's tubes that it's difficult to make a definitive judgement. Using descriptive broad strokes, I'd say the 6922 family tends to be more neutral and have less warmth to their sound, although some 12au7 family tubes (Sylvania JAN 6189) sound quite like an Amperex 6dj8 in the BHK. 70's Voshkhod 6n23p's sound warmer to me than most 6922 family tubes. The steel pin 7308 Raytheon is a complete winner in the BHK, sounding much like my favorite 12au7 family tube so far, the RCA 5814A. Most of the 6dj8's I've used, whether Siemens, Amperex, Phillips, or Matshusita tend to be a little bright and unforgiving in the BHK for my tastes.

That said, it's easy to put too much emphasis on any given tubes "sound" because the circuit that it's used in plays a bigger part. In my Music Reference RM5III, none of the 6922 family tubes were bright or harsh in an objectionable way, just objective and neutral.
« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2019, 12:31 am by Photon46 »

jtsnead

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #14 on: 10 Jan 2019, 09:06 pm »
Have a BHK also and the new Modwright PH9.0 phono preamp it is funny I hear more a difference in the MW then the BHK albeit I have only changed tubes in the BHK twice. I will have to order some of the ones recommended by Photon46, unless you have some you want to move or anyone else :). The MW I think came with JJ and I put the new Gold Lions in and I liked them better, Dan sent me some nos 6dj8 but I think I still like the gold lions better have to put them back in to try.

In regards to 12ax7 versus 6922 I had the Rogue Ares Magnum phono pre that used them and tried nos stock tubes that helped but when I got the MW 9.0 I liked that pre better so I sold the Rogue pretty quickly and did not put it back in to compare but I like the 6922 in the 9.0 and overall I think the whole presentation is more to my liking maybe a little warmer

FullRangeMan

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #15 on: 10 Jan 2019, 09:23 pm »
When I return to the 6922 it always sounds good at first, but over a couple days I get fatigued.
Do you already try the cheap 6N1P, 6N2P or 7DJ8?

S Clark

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #16 on: 10 Jan 2019, 10:27 pm »
if you in USA,i could loan you a pair of amperex gold pint 6922 to try it out,before you spend money on them.


lap
Likewise, I've got a ton of extras that I can send your way-  Russian, Amperex, Tungsrams.  I really like the older Austrian Valvo 7dj8 D getters... but they're two or three times the price of new for a good pair.   

mresseguie

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #17 on: 11 Jan 2019, 05:45 am »
Likewise, I've got a ton of extras that I can send your way-  Russian, Amperex, Tungsrams.  I really like the older Austrian Valvo 7dj8 D getters... but they're two or three times the price of new for a good pair.

if you in USA,i could loan you a pair of amperex gold pint 6922 to try it out,before you spend money on them.


lap

Gentlemen,

You’re both very generous and I appreciate your offers. However, this Arriba preamp is staying in Taiwan. Loaning me Tubes would be a long-term loaner. I’d have to receive them in advance of my flight to Taiwan this Winter. Then, they’d stay with me until I return in the Spring of 2020.  It’s much easier if I buy some in Taipei - both new and NOS are sold by reputable dealers.

This preamp is built like a tank. The top cover has something like 14 screws securing it to the frame. When I asked about tube rolling, the company rep looked at me with slightly wide eyes and replied, “Oh, no. Don’t trouble yourself with that. We’ll service it in five years. We’ll clean it and replace the tubes.” Obviously, tube rolling isn’t encouraged.  I don’t know how good their amps, preamps, and CDPs really are, but they’re all tubed, and the company aims to compete with Line Magnetic gear.


avahifi

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Re: 6922 based preamps
« Reply #18 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:47 pm »
If a small signal tube has too low gain for the intended circuit design, the result will be milder, but often muddy sound.

If a small signal tube has too high gain for the intended circuit design, the result will be crisper, but often too bright sound.

Check with circuit designer if possible to find out just what gain is ideal for the circuit.

A tube tester is a nice thing to own when trying tube rolling.  Or refer to tube specificaitons for tube gain characterist - amplification factor.

Frank