How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.

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Scott Joplin

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Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #20 on: 14 Nov 2020, 10:35 am »
Of course of this this goes back to the room setup, treatment, and speaker placement. If all of that is a disaster then the rest of it won't really matter.  Those are the things that allow all to be heard.
It's more likely that those who don't hear much or any improvement already have systems with good power response.

tizman

Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #21 on: 21 Dec 2020, 10:02 am »
This topic is of particular interest to me as I have recently "completed" a horn based speaker that combines a Peavey FH1 bass bin (which is a slightly improved La Scala bass bin), with an Altec 511B horn driven by a Renkus-Heinz SSD-1800 compression driver.  The two drivers are time aligned.  The crossover is at 650 HZ and has a HF compensation segment to drop the mids and boost the highs as is required for this horn/CG combo.  The crossover is also separated for bass and high frequencies so that each can be on a separate amp with its own volume control.  This speaker set sounds great.  It sounds more natural/real, and far more cohesive than the La Scalas that were previously my primary speakers.  However, when I switch between the La Scalas and my new speaker, I miss the top end sparkle and air of the La Scalas.  I have a selection of tweeters, some dome and some horn loaded, and I am excited to try Danny Richie's suggestion.  Any advice on how to do it properly given my particular setup would be much appreciated.   

Danny Richie

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Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #22 on: 22 Dec 2020, 02:15 pm »
This topic is of particular interest to me as I have recently "completed" a horn based speaker that combines a Peavey FH1 bass bin (which is a slightly improved La Scala bass bin), with an Altec 511B horn driven by a Renkus-Heinz SSD-1800 compression driver.  The two drivers are time aligned.  The crossover is at 650 HZ and has a HF compensation segment to drop the mids and boost the highs as is required for this horn/CG combo.  The crossover is also separated for bass and high frequencies so that each can be on a separate amp with its own volume control.  This speaker set sounds great.  It sounds more natural/real, and far more cohesive than the La Scalas that were previously my primary speakers.  However, when I switch between the La Scalas and my new speaker, I miss the top end sparkle and air of the La Scalas.  I have a selection of tweeters, some dome and some horn loaded, and I am excited to try Danny Richie's suggestion.  Any advice on how to do it properly given my particular setup would be much appreciated.

Start out trying a rear firing version and see (or hear) how that works out for you.

James Edward

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Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #23 on: 5 Apr 2021, 08:53 pm »
I am interested in doing something like this for my OB Spatial M3 Turbo S. As Danny said, open baffle won’t work well with a rear firing tweeter, so I’m going to use an upward firing dome(I didn’t see it in this thread, but he said in a video that a ribbon would/might sag if set in upward position).
I’m not sure where to begin- I would think matching efficiencies of the add on tweeter and mains would be a good start. Then the rated ohms of each. Then I need to figure where to cross it over- I’m doing this to add ‘air’ to the speakers. I love them and feel it’s the one area lacking.
I do enjoy some loud time with my system- I guess crossover frequency and slope will determine how beefy a tweeter I should be looking at. Which brings to mind another question- would a simple capacitor work in this situation in line with speaker wire from the M3’s binding post? I’m also not opposed to some sort of resistor or L-pad if necessary to tame things.
All of the above should have question marks after each sentence. I may have a good idea or not a clue...
Thanks for any thoughts.

Bendingwave

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Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #24 on: 6 Apr 2021, 01:03 am »
If just to add the "AIR", I would cross at 20k and up with either 1uf cap or 0.68uf.

James Edward

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Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #25 on: 7 Apr 2021, 09:03 pm »
Thank you Mr. Bendingwave, and now I have more basic questions- perhaps the ‘air’ that I’m looking for is related to my 61 year old ears, and I wonder if 20k is too high. I don’t know- if I add a capacitor, what does that make the ‘crossover’? Is it then a 1st order where it’s down 6 db at 10k? That might be fine, and I can experiment with a few different values...

Second question- In the video I watched, Danny said a rear firing add-on tweeter wouldn’t work well with an OB speaker, I believe because of cancellations happening. Does this apply even if my OB Spatials only have the woofers firing to the rear? The compression tweeter only fires forward.

Last question- if I do go ahead with the add-on tweeter with inline cap, and I run it directly off of the speaker’s binding post, do I risk changing what the amplifier ‘sees’ as the impedance or other factors I am unaware of.

Thanks for any answers- My knowledge is very basic, and I appreciate any explanations. Also, if this is the wrong forum, please point me in the right direction.
Thanks,
Jim

SET Man

Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #26 on: 8 Apr 2021, 03:02 am »
Hey!
   
    Yeah, I'm one of those weirdo among audiophiles with Single Driver and super tweeter added. Maybe I've been doing wrong after all these years?

    Anyway, I've been using Single Driver speaker that I built back in 2002 based on Fostex 6" drivers and Fostex FT17H for the so called "Super Tweeter" Yes, I've tried facing the super tweeter backward, upward, reversed polarity and different caps for the cut off point. After all that I ended up with the super tweeter with .47uf caps, facing forward and same polarity as the main driver of which I piggy back the super tweeter from.

    Without any good measurement tools, beside my Rat Shack analog SPL meter and test CD. I have no idea how accurate or in phase they are. I mostly just go by ears. The FT17H level is very low and don't call attention to themselves, but they add a sense of space. The speaker as a system together gave me that solid imaging and wrap around sound to me. And I think because they are aluminum, they add some bite to brass horns and cymbals. I do like what hear and still do after 19 years now.

   Still, I appreciated Danny's writing on this and enjoy his videos on YouTube. It is good to see different ways of doing things.

Buddy

Bullitt5094

Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #27 on: 8 Apr 2021, 01:56 pm »
Danny, I've been intrigued by the LX-Mini for a long time. In this case, the mid range is facing up and the "tweeter" is facing forward reverse to what you've suggested. Any comments on this arrangement?


Danny Richie

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Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #28 on: 8 Apr 2021, 02:27 pm »
Second question- In the video I watched, Danny said a rear firing add-on tweeter wouldn’t work well with an OB speaker, I believe because of cancellations happening. Does this apply even if my OB Spatials only have the woofers firing to the rear? The compression tweeter only fires forward.

Last question- if I do go ahead with the add-on tweeter with inline cap, and I run it directly off of the speaker’s binding post, do I risk changing what the amplifier ‘sees’ as the impedance or other factors I am unaware of.

Since that model has only the low frequency drivers in an open baffle then you can add a rear facing tweeter.

If you check the impedance of the speakers then you will likely see a rise in the upper octave due to the inductive reactance of the voice coil in the tweeter. So you are still pretty good paralleling a tweeter in the top octave.

Danny

James Edward

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Re: How to add a super tweeter, or how not to.
« Reply #29 on: 8 Apr 2021, 09:04 pm »
Thank you Danny. I appreciate your knowledge and input.
Jim