Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.

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Danny Richie

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #20 on: 10 Jan 2019, 10:32 pm »
Right, but my question is - close wall placement, what's better, box or OB? 

IMO, I think OB still wins even with close wall placement.  Because box speaker the mids/highs will interact with the rear wall almost as much as an OB will, AND the box speaker will have a much worse time with bass production with a near wall placement.  I think that swings the needle toward OBs even if 3 feet out is not possible.

But with an OB design and close wall placement there will be out of phase cancellation patterns (15db dips) that occur at any frequency above the mid-range (300 to 500Hz). With a boxed design the cancellation from the rear wall will be limited to lower ranges only. It will also cause coupling of the rear wall in those lower ranges.

I might have to take some measurements of it one day.

It might look a little like what I did with side wall reflections here: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158591.msg1694273

Captainhemo

Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #21 on: 10 Jan 2019, 11:04 pm »
see above

Early B.

Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #22 on: 10 Jan 2019, 11:27 pm »
I don't have much room behind the speaker, 6" .  Will the open baffle work or would a sealed system be better? Danny will these be added to your website?

Don't compromise. Get what you want. Otherwise, you'll always be chasing what you want.

During critical listening, can you move the OB speakers from the back wall, then once you're done, move them back?

mkane

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #23 on: 11 Jan 2019, 01:11 am »


During critical listening, can you move the OB speakers from the back wall, then once you're done, move them back?
[/quote]

 This is exactly what I did for quite some time. Then my wife caved.

Tyson

Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #24 on: 11 Jan 2019, 01:34 am »
But with an OB design and close wall placement there will be out of phase cancellation patterns (15db dips) that occur at any frequency above the mid-range (300 to 500Hz). With a boxed design the cancellation from the rear wall will be limited to lower ranges only. It will also cause coupling of the rear wall in those lower ranges.

I might have to take some measurements of it one day.

It might look a little like what I did with side wall reflections here: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158591.msg1694273

Interesting.  Thanks Danny.

mlundy57

Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #25 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:49 am »
I have also found that as my OB speakers get closer than 3’ from thr front wall the soundstage shrinks. Too close and it all but disappears. None of the OB magic anymore.

If you canonly get them 6” fromthe wall the studio monitor Danny is designing would be a better option.

Jay built a pair of N3s and reversed the transmission line so the port opening was on the front baffle sohe could place them closer to the wall (in contrast, I have my rear ported N3s about 18” from the wall). This would be another option.

Mike

Tyson

Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #26 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:50 am »
Danny, you should consider making a box speaker w/the Neo10 and Neo3 and a small woofer, something similar to the old VMPS 626r.  That would allow close wall placement and still give people a good tasted of what these Neo drivers are capable of. 

HT cOz

Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #27 on: 11 Jan 2019, 05:45 am »
Danny, you should consider making a box speaker w/the Neo10 and Neo3 and a small woofer, something similar to the old VMPS 626r.  That would allow close wall placement and still give people a good tasted of what these Neo drivers are capable of.

This is a great idea.  Even with all the OB love, some people want a traditional speaker. 

Broncosaurs

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #28 on: 11 Jan 2019, 03:34 pm »
Danny those wall graphs are amazing.  I would love to see measurements with this speaker closer to a rear wall.  This room layout will not permit me to move the speakers 3' off the wall.  I did love the sound of the Z-92 and if these are that much better, wow.  With my rear wall limitation what other options using the neo 3/10 driver do I have?  Where can I find  the studio monitor Danny is designing? 

Thanks, Brad

DeeJayBump

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #29 on: 11 Jan 2019, 04:29 pm »
Where can I find  the studio monitor Danny is designing? 

Thanks, Brad

Studio Monitor(s) thread:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=160647.0

Danny Richie

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #30 on: 11 Jan 2019, 04:39 pm »
Danny, you should consider making a box speaker w/the Neo10 and Neo3 and a small woofer, something similar to the old VMPS 626r.  That would allow close wall placement and still give people a good tasted of what these Neo drivers are capable of.

Twice I have designed networks for guys with a sealed box Neo 10 and Neo 3 combination.

It still requires some low frequency help below 200Hz and at 91db sensitivity that is not easy to do with a single woofer. So we're talking a full floor standing model for sure.

A great idea was proposed in the post above this one. I think you guys will be stunned at how good those studio monitors are.

Broncosaurs

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #31 on: 11 Jan 2019, 04:54 pm »
I always loved the sound of the small planers.  In my teens (70s) I had a pair of speakers the had a Heil Air Motion Transformer.  Not quite a planer but lots of the same qualities).  Then had some Infinity monitors with their EMIT tweeter.  Moved up to a used set of the Infinity 2.5s.  Much the same OB design as these speakers.  They had two EMIMs mid range drivers open front and back.  Two EMIT tweeters, one firing front the other to the rear.  Bi-amped to a Walux sp? dual voice coil woofer.  This was 35 years ago!  A speaker ahead of its time?  I got rid of them when the woofer surrounds fell apart.  Wife, kids , work and years later I now would like to build/have sound something like these.   I now just need to please the other, style wise.  I will take a look at the monitors.

Broncosaurs

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #32 on: 15 Jan 2019, 09:54 pm »
Just a thought: If the larger wing had a second bend/angle to bounce the rear waves to side walls.  Would something like this negate the 3' rear wall distance needed as so front to back cancellations would not be a problem?

Danny Richie

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #33 on: 15 Jan 2019, 10:00 pm »
Just a thought: If the larger wing had a second bend/angle to bounce the rear waves to side walls.  Would something like this negate the 3' rear wall distance needed as so front to back cancellations would not be a problem?

Nope. Shorter wavelengths (high frequency) are easy to absorb or direct. But longer wavelengths (lower frequency ranges below 1kHz) will wrap around corners and are harder to absorb the lower you go.

And the size and shape of the side wings even effect the on axis response. You can't change them without it effecting the response. In fact the side wings are designed based on the forward facing output.

saygrr

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #34 on: 30 Jan 2019, 10:28 pm »
Is there or will there be a flat pack for the 3 M-165 woofers to use with the Neo 3 / Neo 10 monitor?

Danny Richie

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #35 on: 30 Jan 2019, 10:32 pm »
Is there or will there be a flat pack for the 3 M-165 woofers to use with the Neo 3 / Neo 10 monitor?

Yes.

saygrr

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #36 on: 30 Jan 2019, 11:14 pm »
With the 3 M-165 woofers, how deep would the bass reach. With a Rythmik sub with GR Research woofer cone I would think this Neo 3 / Neo 10 combination would produce large scale classical music well?

Danny Richie

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #37 on: 31 Jan 2019, 12:46 am »
With the 3 M-165 woofers, how deep would the bass reach. With a Rythmik sub with GR Research woofer cone I would think this Neo 3 / Neo 10 combination would produce large scale classical music well?

Four of the M-165 woofers used in the NX-Otica model (also open baffle) have hit crossover points between 45Hz and 80Hz depending on the room gain.

And these little speakers should do everything really well.

saygrr

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Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #38 on: 31 Jan 2019, 01:34 pm »
Is Bohlender Graebener still in business? I did find info on the Neo 10 from Parts Express but Parts Express also stated  the Neo 10 is no longer available.

AKLegal

Re: Neo 3/ Neo10 monitor thoughts.
« Reply #39 on: 31 Jan 2019, 02:59 pm »

Jay built a pair of N3s and reversed the transmission line so the port opening was on the front baffle sohe could place them closer to the wall (in contrast, I have my rear ported N3s about 18” from the wall). This would be another option.

Mike

I'm surprised I don't see practical things like this mentioned in audio forums more often.  My room absolutely cannot handle a box speaker of any size that is rear ported.  Didn't matter how far the speakers were off the front wall.  Bass gets out of control boomy with any rear port.  On the flipside, front ported speakers would sound completely different in my room with even large speakers sounding like they have low bass output.  Took me years for the light bulb to go off because I couldn't just switch diffrent pairs of speakers in an out at will just to hear the difference.  So sometimes its not just distance from the front wall but general room acoustics that will rule out an entire type of speakers for you.  This was all before I treated my room, but I still would never ever put a rear ported speaker in my room again.

I was all set to buy a front ported pair of monitors to go with a pair of 8 inch H-Frames before I stumbled upon Danny's old V2 open baffles, which led to me buying Super V's, NX-Ottica monitors, Super 7s....