Does UL Approved matter?

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Hear Clifford Brown

Does UL Approved matter?
« on: 15 Dec 2018, 01:15 am »
A friend had an electrician in his house working on the installation of a heat pump.  Got to talking and showed him his $50 Pangea outlet.  The electrician said it looks nice but it's not UL approved. Turns out PS Audio's $50 outlets are not UL tested either.  The National Electric Code (NEC) requires the use of UL tested products.  I'm sure these outlets would pass the testing, so does it matter that they are not UL approved?  Maybe only if they caused your house to burn down?

Folsom

Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #1 on: 15 Dec 2018, 02:27 am »
Well, an electrician won’t want the blame, so it is no surprise they may not be willing.

UL isn’t really a requirement, it is a litigation shield many use as policy for what they will install.

For small time manufacturers it is impossible to get. It is insanely expensive.

If they were found at fault for causing a fire then your insurance company may not cover you (if they even know, may not be able too).

Elizabeth

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Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #2 on: 15 Dec 2018, 03:39 am »
Undewriter's Laboratory is a private company. The is no government mandate or law of any kind stating UL approval is required.
The entire electrical code is written for electrical contractors. So they all are 'on the same page'.
The only thing that can happen to anyone for violating the 'code; is your permit may not be approved, or you may have to tear out the work and redo it WITH a permit.
No one is going to jail... Because the CODE IS NOT A  CRIMINAL LAW. other than laws governing HOW electrical work BY electrician is done.The mysterious scare tactics claim about insurance companies is always fascinating. That somehow they will n cover audiophile gizmos. Yet if that were true.. you wold see many articles and stories about actual refusals to pay claims. there ARE NONE. Look at for example flood insurance and the endless hassles. All sorts of stories. Then no stories about audiophile toys caused loss of coverage.. Where? FIND ONE.

So all the talk of some folks making claims of insurance problems? Not true.

The code is for electricians. Some electricians may say due to their own liability, no I will not install anything not UL approved. There are no laws saying you cannot have it. But if you sell you home, best take it out. Mainly to avoid lawsuit crazy lawyers. Example: "They sold us this house and when our little Tommy was sticking multilple screwdrivers into that unapproved AC duplex with his friends, he burned his hand off. And  since the folks who sold us the house have money, we want it. all of it. For poor Tommy's hand." Or they go after the electrician, wo hopefully has even MORE money..

Folsom

Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #3 on: 15 Dec 2018, 03:41 am »
You have to defend non-UL gear if it is at fault (or associated). It isn’t an automatic process, like if it is UL.

Speedskater

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Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #4 on: 15 Dec 2018, 02:09 pm »
Hold on just a minute!
While the NEC code book is not a CRIMINAL LAW, it becomes a civil law when your jurisdiction makes it so.  Your jurisdiction might be your city or state.  It's whatever government that makes the building laws in your area. The can chose what year code book (2008, 2011, 2014, 2017) and they also can make additional laws or make exceptions.  You can be subject to the same penalties as to breaking any other building code law (including in theory condemning the house).

Elizabeth

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Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #5 on: 15 Dec 2018, 02:27 pm »
I agree with Speedskater.
They might take your house, but YOU will not go to jail.  :thumb:

Folsom

Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #6 on: 15 Dec 2018, 05:55 pm »
Hold on just a minute!
While the NEC code book is not a CRIMINAL LAW, it becomes a civil law when your jurisdiction makes it so.  Your jurisdiction might be your city or state.  It's whatever government that makes the building laws in your area. The can chose what year code book (2008, 2011, 2014, 2017) and they also can make additional laws or make exceptions.  You can be subject to the same penalties as to breaking any other building code law (including in theory condemning the house).

If you remodeled not following the local jurisdiction you'd be in trouble. If you installed an outlet in a pre-existing structure I don't think anyone would think about it really since you don't know, and have no reasonable expectation to find out for something simple. Obviously if they found a record of you avoiding it, you'd be in trouble.

No one would have the expectation or know about non-building materials for local jurisdiction.

rollo

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Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #7 on: 19 Dec 2018, 07:17 pm »
  Are not these receptacles made by companies for audio companies who have an UL approval for  basically same receptacle ? Hubble makes them for Voodoo. Furutech ?? PS Audio ?? Pangea ?? Who makes theirs ? UL is a business that does testing. Local Gov't makes the rule. Check your local Electrical code to be absolutely positive.


charles

skunark

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Re: Does UL Approved matter?
« Reply #8 on: 19 Dec 2018, 08:41 pm »
Ask your insurance company about this, several won’t cover damage caused by light fixures and outlets that are not UL approved.    I was interested in making a custom ceiling light, but once I learned that that idea vanished.