A new happy AKSA user

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Fram

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A new happy AKSA user
« on: 21 Jan 2005, 12:07 pm »
Hi all,

I'm using an AKSA 55N+ since two months. I began with the stock amp and was somewhat disappointed by the simple schematic. But the first listening tests were good. So I purchased de N+ option just a few weeks later. With the upgrade came a new power supply PCB, so i gave each channel his own one. Each power line had a 2 x 4700uF filtering and an additional 0.1ohms between the stock caps and the newests to achieve a pi CRC. Hum was slighly reduced from 2.8mv to 2.2mv across the speakers. I also added a simple soft-start. Later, i removed the additional filtering as it didn't improve the sound. My mid efficiency speakers were satisfied with only 4700uF. I never used so little filtering...
After a "burn in" of two weeks, i began some comparisons. (the amp was feeded non stop by a tuner and loaded with some power resistors)

Cd player : Marantz CD14
Amp : DIY KT88 push with splitted primary (like QUAD) / 9dB fb.
      DIY hybrid class A tube input capacitively coupled to an deep darlington / no fb
      CRIMSON C630 100W monoblocks.
LS: Cabasse Iroise

I'm using a switcher with high quality telecom relays feeded by a wired remote control. Some power resistors connected trough the normaly closed contacts ensure an always loading of the amps. + a scope and a test cd to adjust exactly the same level. Some dislike this method...
I listen to classical and early music, jazz and blues, some rock too...

My hybrid loosed rapidly the comparison. Lack of bass, impact and slighly less precise in imaging. (when time permits, i will add an Hawksford correction circuit)

With my KT88 PP the bass region was very close and surprisingly the highs too. What became evident when switching the amps was the more lifelike feeling with the tube one. But only with well recorded cd's. More airy and the AKSA slighly dryer. Very nice imaging for each one but my little room's size becomes really an issue.

Then came the CRIMSON. Same sonic. Slighly better highs with AKSA, less metallic. Sparkling highs this AKSA 55N+ !!! I was waiting for more noticeable differences. It's amazing how those two amps , with totally different engineering (extensive curent sourcing, cascoding, sziklai drivers and non complementary fast switching output pairs in the Crimson) can sound so close. I've probably reached the limit of my system, room and ears ???

Hugh Dean has made a great kit amp with eight transistors compared to sixteen (+ two for protection in a CRIMSON block) that costs me half the price. So all in all, i'm happy with it. My brother too is happy. He is the actual owner of two nice monoblocks.

*** To SOITSTARTS
While surfing on this forum for some info, i came on your amp pictures. They are so nice that i can see something that looks like an error on the left side of the twin amp heatsink. Have a look at the copper side. The four base resistors feeding the output pairs are 100R instead of 10R. Curiously, all others are of correct value. Soundwize and at normal listening level, you probably won't notice. But the lower the gain of your output pairs, the higher the voltage loss in those resistors, the sooner your channel will clip. But you've probably correct it since...


Kind regards to all happy AKSA users.

Francis

soitstarts

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #1 on: 21 Jan 2005, 01:12 pm »
Francis,
Wow, what can I say? Thanks a lot for that..  :o
I had no idea and am luckily doing a mark II of my case so I will fix it in the next couple of days. That is actually my centre channel so I haven't really given it a critical listen turned right up.

whats wrong with you other guys? I've been waiting for someone to pick up the obvious mistake :lol:  :wink:  :!:  :?:


Martin

AKSA

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #2 on: 22 Jan 2005, 01:03 am »
Hi Francis,

Many thanks for your thoughtful, even challenging, review!  You raise some very interesting points, and it's very clear to me you have a lot of experience with tube and SS audio.  I commend you on your acute listening skills, and very obvious deep knowledge of topologies.   :dance:

Let me offer a few thoughts on amplifier design.  They are based on half a lifetime of fiddling with SS electronics;  my tube experience is only about ten years old.  I deliberately downplay the math (which is certainly important but tends to cloud the real issues, in my view) and so my description is based on the subjectives.

As a general rule, the scientific method used with all technologies is concerned to observe, document, measure and 'explain' natural phenomenon.  Much of this is based on the human eye, which is almost 100% objective.  Conventional scientific thinking therefore looks to measurement and mathematical prediction as conclusive proof of its theories, and in most cases this is entirely appropriate.  Atomic power could never have been discovered were it not for the painstaking measurement from people like the Joliot-Curies, Frisch, Meitner, Rutherford, Hahn and a huge supporting army of scientists, notably Neils Bohr.  But audio is slightly different because the ear is not entirely objective.  There is a powerful subjective element, as we all know.  We like what we like, and tastes vary enormously.

Nevertheless, high end audio has been developed along scientific lines with scrupulous care given to the math and the measurement.  The engineers have done a good job and delivered amps with 0.005% distortion - absolutely commendable.  But the rogue element, in my view, has been the insistence that the best systems have the lowest measured distortion, and this has divided high end audiophiles into two camps;  the objectivists, like Doug Self, and the subjectivists, the 'golden ear' group, who are easy targets because they are clearly too 'stupid' to understand the real issues involved, viz, the math.   :cry:

Audio sales are lucrative because people love their music, and true high end systems can easily cost many tens of thousands of dollars.  From $50K speakers through $20K amps and $10K CD players, there is no shortage of available product.  So how do we gauge the value of this exotica?

Two ways come to mind;  marketing cachet, and sonics.  We all know how seductive the marketing can be;  often we see something we have to have entirely on the basis of looks alone.  Take a look at the latest Shanling tube CD player - WOW!!  What a great piece of industrial art!!  But those who judge on sonics alone, like Francis, are worth their weight in gold because they are not fooled by good looks.......

Clearly Francis has been on a substantial journey of his own, and has already sought the golden fleece of audio.   :notworthy:

However, there's another problem.  We human units are very drawn to complexity.  Who cannot admire the beauty of a DOHC, fuel injected, four valve head auto engine, particularly when compared to a conventional, OHV, carburetted, pushrod engine?  Complexity is very appealing..... :tempted:

And yet, the pushrod motor is probably more reliable, because it is simpler.  And it's likely to be easier to drive too, because its torque characteristics are stronger at low speed.  And it should last longer because of the lower speed.  All round, the large displacement, simpler motor beats the complex, highly stressed, smaller engine every time, particularly for tooling around the suburbs.  So how does this apply to audio?  Let me give the advantages of simplicity, and they apply pretty well across all technologies.    :mrgreen:

1.  Improved reliability because there are less parts and lower stresses.
2.  Superior overall performance in normal operating environments.
3.  Lower manufacturing costs.
4.  Easier troubleshooting and repair.
5.  Longer service life because of less parts and interconnections.
6.  Generally more conservative ratings, giving cleaner operation across the range because of less distortive interactions.

Of course, it goes without saying that a simple design is difficult, because you are trying to achieve more with less, and that's difficult in any endeavour.  I started work on power amplifiers many years ago and had huge problems keeping them simple.  For starters, I loved cascodes, double diff input pairs, differential voltage amplifiers, Sziklai pairs on the output, current mirrors, current sources at every opportunity.  It was difficult to fit all these modern circuit blocks into a power amplifier without a lot of components, and I had huge problems keeping the pcbs small, I can tell you.  But over time, I did lots of little experiments and with golden eared friends to corroborate my assessments I generally found that none of these circuit elements improved the sound.  To wit, let me tick them off one by one:

1.  Double diff input stages.  Great idea, but cancels even order distortion, leaving only bad sounding odd order.  Also makes it difficult to stabilize the offset.  More complexity, poor offset control, worse sound, out it goes......
2.  Current mirrors.  Very elegant, liked it a lot, gave great offset control.  However, one day I pulled out the calculator and did the sums.  Current mirrors lead to fundamental unbalance in the diff stage they service.  This increases distortion, and when you build with and without, it's clearly audible.  On the cutting floor with that one!
3.  Emitter followers to precede the VAS (voltage amp stage).  Again, a good idea, but doesn't bring any sonic improvement at all.  Leave it out.
4.  Cascoding.  Tried it on both the diff stage and the VAS.  No advantage I (or others) could hear.  With ready availability of high voltage transistors with excellent high frequency response, couldn't see the point.  No dice!
5.  Sziklai Pairs (sometimes called CFP).  Very, very seductive idea technically.  Huge appeal - this is the Elle MacPherson of output stages.  BUT, what's this - instability at crossover, particularly on the negative rail?  Yes, doesn't work well at the switching transition, very prone to oscillation.  OK, can we fix it with small miller caps on the drivers?  Aha, yes, we can, but what about the sound?  Terrible, no vitality, stone dead presentation.  So, it was no good either........

Instead, I concentrated on the weak points in the conventional Bailey PP SS amplifier, and identified diff pair balance, voltage amplifier operating point and lag compensation techniques, and crossover disjunction with the conventional double emitter follower.  Time spent in these areas pinned down the culprits;  operating points, component choice and switching control.  The result of this ruthless culling has been the AKSA.

Cheers,

Hugh

andyr

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #3 on: 22 Jan 2005, 03:05 am »
Great explanation, Hugh!

Now I know you were responding to Francis's review but you could perhaps have extended your description of your design journey by mentioning that more expensive (but I don't know whether this means "more sophisticated"  :? ) components had actually delivered sonic benefits ... I'm thinking here of the BGs and Nichicon KG Muses over the caps in the base AKSA kits.

BTW, I trust you picked up that the wonderful Campbell McComas has just shuffled off his mortal coil ... speaking of the difference between "subjective" and "objective" he had a wonderful legal defence, once, in a rape case when he referred to an "objective erection" as one that would "stand up in court"!!   :lol:

Regards,

Andy

mb

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #4 on: 22 Jan 2005, 05:32 am »
Welcome to the club. Have you put any upgrades into the Marantz CD14? From what I understand it uses the TDA1547 dac. I've had some fantastic results tuning several Philips CD950s that use the same TDA1547 dac. With the AKSA you'll be able to hear the results of the upgrades (mainly power supply related, esp. power to the dac and output opamps) very clearly. Enjoy!

AKSA

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #5 on: 22 Jan 2005, 07:49 am »
Hi Andy,

C'mon mate:

Quote
Time spent in these areas pinned down the culprits; operating points, component choice and switching control. The result of this ruthless culling has been the AKSA.


I'm the first to admit that component choice is very important!!   :rules:

Cheers,

Hugh

Fram

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #6 on: 22 Jan 2005, 09:59 pm »
Hi Hugh Dean,

Man... The keyboard is really your friend!!!
You remember me a close friend, french/italian. When we talk about audio, his mouth doesn't suffice, he speak's with his hands too.

Your response is like we used to say here: "pleine de bon sens".
I feel i have a better understanding of what goes on here.
It's not so easy to admit that someone can do the same or better with less...

I'm just listening to Kari Bremnes/svarta bjorn from Norway. Strong sub bass. My tube amp can't compete. The AKSA is at its ease. I understand obviously nothing, but is that good...


Hi AndyR,

When upgrading from stock to N+, i began to swap only the BGs. One week of "burn in" later, i noticed no changes. But one week is a long time. Had you the opportunity to achieve this instantly ?


Hi mb,

When i opened first my cd14, i was impressed by the quality of almost everything inside. Large and quiet toroid, nice engineered pcb, elna caps everywhere, many cerafines, many ballasts and voltage regulators, one tda1547 for each channel, so it's fully balanced until the outputs, muting with relays, copper everywhere but i'm sceptical about this. I'm just puzzled by the use of cheapy 2114 JRC's as i/v converters and low pass filters. But SMD rules. Though, i play sometime with samples, a good night, no coffee, no coke (with or without the nails :wink: ) and with some luck you can make nice things with SMDs. Making an upgrade is nothing easy. I have already made upgrades that gave sad results. It needs a good knowledge about what the engineering staff was intended to do. If it gaves you great results, i'm happy for you.
I'm waiting for a dac card (cs8420/df1704/pcm1704) so i will be able to make some comparisons. If it gives me no strong noticeable differences, it will stay as is.



Best regards
Francis

andyr

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #7 on: 22 Jan 2005, 11:12 pm »
Quote from: Fram
Hi AndyR,

When upgrading from stock to N+, i began to swap only the BGs. One week of "burn in" later, i noticed no changes. But one week is a long time. Had you the opportunity to achieve this instantly ? ...
No, sorry Francis, "instant" - or even "short time" - are not words one associates with BGs!!  :(

After a couple of hundred hours playing music and a couple of hundred more just switched on, you could probably say the BGs are starting to sound their best.

Regards,

Andy

soitstarts

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #8 on: 23 Jan 2005, 07:30 am »
Okay, I've replaced the 100Rs with 10Rs. Can anyone tell me if I will need to redo the setup for this channel?

Martin

AKSA

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #9 on: 23 Jan 2005, 08:35 am »
Martin,

No, it should be fine, just measure it, make sure it's 55mV within the tolerance limits in the instructions.

Francis,

Thank you for your comments, and for picking up the 100R resistors on Martin's amp!!  

You are right;  my hands move around like leaves in the wind when I speak....... :lol:

Cheers,

Hugh

dayneger

A new happy AKSA user
« Reply #10 on: 25 Jan 2005, 07:17 pm »
Given that my useful knowledge of electrical engineering snuffs out at the level of calculating a voltage drop across a resistor :roll:, it sure is fascinating reading these discussions of the higher echelons of audio design.

I will be sure to vehemently blast the supposed advantages of Sziklai Pairs the next time I see some audio friends.  And then look very smug.  Of course, it could get quite embarrassing given that I don't know how to pronounce it.  But hey, who's counting?!   :D

Dayne