[darkmoebius]

I'm looking to buy my first deck - A used dealer in my town has a near pristine HW-19jr for sale at $750 including a PT-5 arm and a Grado Platinum/Reference cartridge.  The dust cover is clean as they come.

Is this a decent price? Seems to be by Audiogon listings. Although, I'm not sure if he has the original box and manuals. The adcatge is that I don't have to risk shipping damage if I buy online and he takes in future trade-ins.

Also, I see there are several iterations of the HW-19 beyond the junior. What are the differences besides date of production. Is the mkIII leagues beyond the junior?

Since there has been talk about VPI discontinuing the HW-19 series, will it still be possible to upgrade to the mk-x levels? Or should I wait to find one of those?

How can I tell what version it is?

Any advice greatly appreciated by this vinyl newbie.

[ohenry]

I've owned one for 15 years and it sounds great and still looks new.  They're well-built and a good buy.  Others here have recently expressed their interest in the 19's sound and lament their discontinuance.  I'd check with VPI to see about their plans for providing upgrade parts, upgrades do improve the unit.

The price seems fair to me as well and having it available locally is attractive.

BTW, the Jr, Mk III and Mk IV refer to the level of upgrade (different platter, plinth and suspension options).  You can make the Jr into any of those models with the parts and a little DIY.

[WEEZ]

..rumor is that parts will be available for the 19 series, but I agree with ohenry- you might check w/ VPI to see.

Mine started life as a jr. I upgraded to mk111 (the kit was about $600). I later removed the springs and went back to the pucks. IMHO, the biggest improvement in upgrading from a jr is the mk111 platter. If the one you're thinking about buying has a clear platter, it's the standard jr. The mk111 platter is (was) black.

The Audioquest arms are fine. Work well with Grado's. $750 is a fair price, but you can maybe bargain a little. Just before VPI discontinued the 19 series- a new jr w/ PT-9 & Platinum would have run about $1300 as a package. You can upgrade the phono cable with the AQ arms as they use a plug-in DIN connector. AQ offers upgrades, or you can use Cardas, Kimber, etc.

The 19's are now a classic. If VPI continues to support them with parts- then you can likely do no better in their price range. If parts become hard to find, then you may be forced to look at the Scout. Sound-wise; the 19's sound more full than the Scout- though the Scout is more full than a Rega by a small degree.

I know that the sound differences in turntables (and all components, for that matter) are subjective; but I happen to like the sound of the 19's.

good luck,

WEEZ

[darkmoebius]

Thanks for the info, guys.

 I sent an email asking about future upgrade options for the 19 series tables. The owner's wife, Sheila responded immediately with this info:

tHE 19 SERIES HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED AS OF jAN. 1,
05. wE WILL FILL ORDERS ON PARTS REMAINING IN
HOUSE. mK 3 AND mK. UPGRADE KITS WILL NOT BE
AVAILABLE, ONLY PARTS THAT ARE PART OF THIS. a
FULL LIST OF PARTS WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE ON OUR
WEBSITE SHORTLY.  sHEILA

Which is actually a better deal from what I've read because the biggest improvement seems to come  the heavier platter of the mkIII or mkIV over any of the other parts of the kits.

Above that, the only thing I would probably do is get a better tonearm over the AQ PT-5 that comes with it.

There have been some great threads on AudioAsylum from people have done a "Poor Man's SAMA" upgrade by placing risers with the isolation pucks under the plinth to decouple it from the chassis. $20 in parts, $400 in improvement.

The scary thing about this new obsession is that the next level always seems to be just 15-25% more.

[WEEZ]

..interesting, no upgrade kits.

Anyway, if you go ahead with the jr- the platter upgrade you want is HW-2009. It's a drop-on replacement. (at least it was for my vintage).

IMHO- there is nothing wrong with the Audioquest arm- but feel free to upgrade if you want to. The PT-9 has adjustable damping + vta; does the PT-5? The 9 is great with Grados.

I still think VPI screwed-up big time with the elimination of the 19 series. I guess customers got on the Scout bandwagon due to favorable magazine reviews, but if anyone listened to a Scout compared to an upgraded jr or a mk111- there was (is) no comparison. Hell, if I only had the choice of a Scout or a Rega P5 right now, I'd be inclined to pick the Rega. They sound very similar-and the Rega costs less. Neither sound like a 19.

Thanks for posting the e-mail from VPI...

WEEZ

[darkmoebius]

Anyway, if you go ahead with the jr- the platter upgrade you want is HW-2009. It's a drop-on replacement. (at least it was for my vintage).

That's exactly the info I was looking for, thanks.

IMHO- there is nothing wrong with the Audioquest arm- but feel free to upgrade if you want to.

Well, judging from the price of the PT-9's, I think the PT-5 will have to do for a long time.

I still think VPI screwed-up big time with the elimination of the 19 series... but if anyone listened to a Scout compared to an upgraded jr or a mk111- there was (is) no comparison.[/quote]

You know, I've read literally hundreds of posts over the last week on the HW-19's and quite a lot of people have said the same thing. The 19's have really found a special place in their  owner's hearts(and ears).

I'm going to go back to the dealers house and give it a real good listen again w/ the EAR 834P he has hooked up.  He's also got a demo Music Hall MMF-9 in the same room for ~$1.1k. I'll do a comparison of the two and see how they stack up. A thousand  is out of my range, but hearing the two in the same system w/ the same material should highlight their strengths and weaknesses.

[creativepart]

I bought a HW19 MK III (that turned out to be a Jr that had been upgraded at some time in the past) and I love it. This is a great turntable.

But that price does seem a tad high. I got the Mk III with a Rega RB300 arm, cardis tonearm rewire and Expressimo Heavyweight for $895. No cartridge mind you, but all the MK III goodies and a very good tonearm... better than the AQ 6.

I've seen basically stock Jr's with the AQ6 arm for as low as $450 within the past month on Audiogon.

The cartridge skews the price, so if you like that cartridge then it's probably a good deal.

Paul Green

[darkmoebius]

I bought a HW19 MK III...and I love it. This is a great turntable.

Haven't read many posts anywhere from who dislike it . May not be their cup o' tea, but everyone agrees it's a performer. And they are plenty who absolutely love them. That's why I think a VPI 19 series is a safe bet for a first table.

I've seen basically stock Jr's with the AQ6 arm for as low as $450 within the past month on Audiogon. The cartridge skews the price, so if you like that cartridge then it's probably a good deal.

Seeing how a Sonata Reference w/ 90 hrs sells for $225 used and the Platinum is 40% less new, I'd expect that the cart only accounts for ~$135 of the total. That means I'd be paying $615 for a jr w/ the PT-5 tonearm. Not a very good deal at all when you how much I'd pay for mkIII  or IV upgrades. That would put me in the $1k+ region.

Used Sonata on Audiogon: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1111332191

In fact, there's a Jr. on Audiogon right now with the upgraded platter and an AQ PT-6 arm for $550.  

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1109136141

I think I'll sit on the sidelines and wait for a good deal on a mkIII or IV.

Hell, if I'm going to near the $1k line, then near new Music Hall MMF-9's are available.

Thanks for the advice.

[WEEZ]

...with all due respect to the MusicHall tt lovers....they are simply not in the same league as a VPI. Build-wise; or more importantly, sound wise.

As I said in another thread, when my VPI gets older and more tired, I will look at SOTA, or a VPI TNT Jr. By the way, speaking of SOTA, you can buy a Comet with a Rega arm for under a grand, if you look.

try hcmaudio.com or toddthevinyljunkie.com and have a look.

Good luck, man. Whatever you choose- even MusicHall- will sound much more satisfying than ceedee's will. For sure.

WEEZ