New Pioneer UHD-LX800 In The House!!!

modwright · « **on:** 4 Dec 2018, 02:08 am »

I have just received the first Pioneer UHD-LX800 Univerasl Player and I am IMPRESSED! In stock form, this is a SERIOUS machine![/size]

Impressive build! Very heavy, completely solid and non-resonant with fantastic shielding and rigid construction. This is a well designed piece!

I am just playing CD's through the Pioneer UDP-LX800 right now to burn it in and I am IMPRESSED! VERY black background, wide soundstage and very resolving and beautiful sounding! I believe the attention that Pioneer payed to the mechanical build, with individually mechanically and electrically shielded audio, transformer, video, power supplies can be HEARD in its presentation! I am not typically this impressed with a STOCK unit! The LX500 should ALSO be very interesting! Much of the same design attention was paid to this unit also!

The LX500 also has potential! I am going to be looking hard at both of them! I just happen to have the fortune to spend some time with the 800 first, thanks to a customer!

Let me know what level of interest there is in mods for these new UHD Players!

oem-wheels · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Dec 2018, 04:09 am »

Modwright Oppo205 owners need not to consider this Pioneer, right ?

modwright · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Dec 2018, 04:53 pm »

No, 205 owners need not consider this.

I am looking for the NEXT great Universal Player, since the 205 is no longer in production. This unit is a very solid performer!

RDavidson · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Dec 2018, 07:29 pm »

I really wish other manufacturers would include HDMI inputs like Oppo did. It's SO USEFUL for people who have a 2 channel "HT" setup...so things like the cable box or whatever can take advantage of the audio and video processing in these great universal players.

This looks like a REALLY nice platform for Modwright mods, for sure. The construction looks excellent.

Tom Bombadil · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Dec 2018, 11:26 pm »

Unfortunate, given the price that they are asking, that they are using lower end ESS DAC chips than what the Oppo 205 used.

Phil A · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 12:41 am »

I believe Pioneer is using the newest generation of the Sabre Pro (9026). The difference in price per chip from sales sites for the 9028 vs. the 9038 is about $35/chip for consumers to buy and probably a bit less for a manufacturer buying in quantity. Many things use the same DAC chip but that is only one aspect of how the product will sound. Regarding differences between the 9028 and 9038, there is some info here - http://www.dimdim.gr/tag/es9038pro/

dminches · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 01:01 am »

Quote from: Phil A on 5 Dec 2018, 12:41 am

I believe Pioneer is using the newest generation of the Sabre Pro (9026). The difference in price per chip from sales sites for the 9028 vs. the 9038 is about $35/chip for consumers to buy and probably a bit less for a manufacturer buying in quantity. Many things use the same DAC chip but that is only one aspect of how the product will sound. Regarding differences between the 9028 and 9038, there is some info here - http://www.dimdim.gr/tag/es9038pro/

9026 or 9028?

modwright · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 01:06 am »

Hi Phil and thank you! This is indeed very illuminating and explains a lot! I at first assumed that Pioneer simply cheaped out. That could be part of the equation, but my takeaway from the article and data sheet comparison is that the 9028 and 9038 are virtually identical with the exception of the much higher current output for the 9038. Now yes, that higher current does offer leeway in how the I-V stage is implemented and also, offers better measured performance. I have to say however, that we are talking measurements that are STUPID GOOD to start with and then improved upon some more. The differences are so fine as to be inaudible, all else being equal.

The lower current/power budget for the 9028 is possibly another reason for this choice. Much higher current and power to the chip can also lead to more noise if not handled properly. In short, the design choices are multi-factorial and based on the data sheets that I now see, I honestly believe the difference in DACs to be a non-issue.

Where Pioneer clearly DID better the Oppo 205, is in build quality, shielding and vibration isolation. That is evident and audible!

I have yet to dig into the power supplies and analog stage in the Pioneer as I am simply letting it burn in for now and getting acquainted with its sound. I will make each change separately and listen and measure to determine the benefit of each step in the mod design process.

For those who have 205's, no, this product is not a reason to sell the 205 and run out and buy a Pioneer LX800. For those who were not able to secure an Oppo 205 however, I believe that this unit and the LX500 could both offer exceptional replacements for the Oppo products. There is a lot to like about these new units! Pioneer did their homework and I look forward to seeing what we can do to make them TRULY exceptional and World Class!

Phil A · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 01:07 am »

Quote from: dminches on 5 Dec 2018, 01:01 am

9026 or 9028?

The Pioneer apparently uses the 9026 per this - https://fromvinyltoplastic.com/pioneer-udp-lx500-udp-lx800-4k-uhd-blu-ray-players-first-look/

I haven't noticed any sites (haven't really looked) that are selling the 9026 vs. the 9028 - e.g. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ES9028-ES9028PRO-Audio-DAC-Chip-64-eTQFP-135dB-DNR-120dB-THD-N/32921015514.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.35.538d7fbc8DKDcx&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10065_10068_10130_10890_5730315_10547_319_10546_317_10548_10545_10696_453_10084_454_10083_10618_5729215_10307_537_536_10059_10884_10887_100031_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_1,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=4856ff6d-eb39-4db2-98a7-aa51b3e092e1-5&algo_pvid=4856ff6d-eb39-4db2-98a7-aa51b3e092e1

dminches · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 01:18 am »

Thanks Phil.

What role, if any, does the DAC chip play in developing the HDMI signal sent to an AV processor which decodes the multi-channel signal?

modwright · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 01:35 am »

Good question and I am really not sure. I believe that the signal fed via HDMI is digital, to the pre/pro for decoding. In that case, the DAC plays no role.

dminches · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 01:49 am »

Quote from: modwright on 5 Dec 2018, 01:35 am

Good question and I am really not sure. I believe that the signal fed via HDMI is digital, to the pre/pro for decoding. In that case, the DAC plays no role.

That’s what I thought, Dan.

modwright · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 02:40 am »

OK, some listening notes, comparing STOCK Oppo UDP-205 to STOCK Pioneer UHD LX800.

Format: Redbook CD

Same cabling, preamp, amp and speakers.

The Pioneer compared to the 205, again, both stock, has a greater sense of detail, resolution and refinement. The 205 is slightly warmer and by comparison, just a bit more subdued. It is hard to explain. The Pioneer simply sounds very refined! There is a delicacy and very fine low level detail and resolution with the stock LX800 that I don't hear in the stock 205.

As I proceed with this mod, it will be my goal to absolutely retain this low level detail and refinement. It is the quality that I hear when the noise floor is EXCEPTIONALLY low. It is also not in any way bright or aggressive, which suggests very low jitter and distortion.

The next step will be to study the power supplies and analog stages and also measure the stock noise levels. Now I don't have a Digital module for my Audio Precision, so my measurements will be on my Tek analog scope, studying the low level and high frequency noise artifacts or lack thereof, in the power supplies and analog outs.

This is going to be fun! This may or may not necessarily include tubes. I do see transformer coupling in one or more stages and likely tubes in the analog stage. Honestly though, I am going to treat this like a blank canvas! The LX800 appears to be a well designed piece of digital gear and I want to improve upon it strengths! There are few weaknesses to address, which is uncommon for a piece of gear at this level!

To be clear, I am not sure what U.S. MSRP for the stock Pioneer LX800 will be. I would guess between $1500-$2K, but that is just a guess. I believe the LX500 is about $1K.

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 06:41 pm »

Glad that there is a potential new Universal Player that may work out for this market.

Still very unhappy that Oppo did what it did. I was fairly certain somebody would buy out the Oppo Blu Ray (and other Audio) portion of the business from the Corporation and carry on.

Perhaps Pioneer will take over this Niche. Needs a few more features, but a step in the right direction.

modwright · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 07:12 pm »

I agree that it is a step in the right direction. Equally frustrated about Oppo!

Dan

witchdoctor · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 09:22 pm »

Quote from: SoCalWJS on 5 Dec 2018, 06:41 pm

Glad that there is a potential new Universal Player that may work out for this market.

Still very unhappy that Oppo did what it did. I was fairly certain somebody would buy out the Oppo Blu Ray (and other Audio) portion of the business from the Corporation and carry on.

Perhaps Pioneer will take over this Niche. Needs a few more features, but a step in the right direction.

I love my Sony UHPH1 and recommend you look at their UBP X1000ES:

https://www.sony.com/electronics/blu-ray-disc-players/ubp-x1000es

dminches · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Dec 2018, 09:31 pm »

I used to own a Sony UBP x1000ES. The 4k and BR picture were very nice. However, the Sonys do not have the build quality of the high end Oppos and Pioneers. For example, the Sony weighs under 9 pounds while the Opps and Pioneers weigh 30 pounds. Obviously weight isn't everything but it is something.

witchdoctor · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Dec 2018, 02:54 am »

IDK if the Sony would be a good candidate for modding but worth checking out. It plays every format, has DLNA, a ton of streaming apps, lots of customization features in the setup menu and the price is nice at around $499.

https://www.whathifi.com/sony/ubp-x1000es/review

Tommy123 · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Dec 2018, 07:30 am »

Quote from: Tom Bombadil on 4 Dec 2018, 11:26 pm

Unfortunate, given the price that they are asking, that they are using lower end ESS DAC chips than what the Oppo 205 used.

This is true. However, the LX800 uses 4x as many channels on the DAC compared to the 205. Here's a breakdown:

First ES9038PRO DAC (8 ch)
- 1 channel each per 7.1 channel
Second ES9038PRO DAC
- 2 channels for unbalanced
- 2 channels for balanced
- 2 channels for headphone amp
- 2 channels unused.

First ES9026PRO DAC (8 ch)
- 8 channels for unbalanced
Second ES9026PRO DAC (8 ch)
- 8 channels for balanced

Tommy123 · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Dec 2018, 07:31 am »

Dan, how did you get your hands on the LX800? I thought it's not available in North America? My Canadian dealer said it's on on his price sheet.