Discovering I may have the cleanest (noise free) AC lines in America?

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Tyson

I used to think I had decent AC power because whatever passive power fixing devices I tried I could hear no benefit. We're 10 miles from a nuke plant, and have underground cables, 123V, 20A dedicated line to stereo, so I thought I was good. 

Then recently I auditioned a regenerator in my house. It displayed the clipped peaks of the incoming sinewave on its screen and calculated 4% THD. Wow, that was an eye opener! So much for my good power. The sound improvement was an even bigger surprise. I had no idea power quality could have the big of an effect.

I know they're expensive. I'm trying to save up for one now, and it will take a while. But imo, there's no other way to correct the clipped signal that we all get from the power company, except to redraw it from scratch. I wish it didn't matter, but it does make a huge difference.

That's exactly what I see with my PS Audio P10.  Love that thing, it's like upgrading my entire system at once.  And not just the audio side - I also plugged my HT 4k projector into it and there was a noticeable improvement in clarity, vibrancy and much better/cleaner black levels.

rollo

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 Elizabeth living on the edge of clarity and presence is a tough act as you well know. So close to perfect then a small tweak tried and over the edge it goes.
I'm with you on that subject. Presence and clarity without lean, bright or dry sound is hard to accomplish. That's the fun but frustrating at times trying to get that accomplished.
  We run mono block amps, a dual mono preamp, three digital sources and two TT's. Have four 20A dedicated lines off a sub panel. Each mono block and preamp on one line each. Digital as well has a dedicated line. Analog another. We took special care to have all wire lengths to dedicated lines equal in length to avoid ground loops. Each line had a PIAudio Uberbuss.  Worked very well for years. Then ?
   Then we tried using only two lines with two Gigawatt PC-2+ conditioners. Plugging one amp and preamp in one and the other amp and preamp  in the other. Digital was split between the two PC-2+ conditioners.
   Now we got it all in spades presence, clarity without leanness, brightness or edge of any kind. The leading edge is pure. Then trying one conditioner and using one dedicated line we lost some openness and size of stage but that's all we lost.
   BTW we use Harvesters at Ref, TV, Furnace and AC unit only. Not on any line of Audio system. That helped as well.


charles
   

Elizabeth

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Thanks for the comments charles.
I am glad to hear from someone who understands the fine line between clarity and lean condition.

Pulling several of the Noise Harvesters off the Audio system helped. Also the BluTack in the three now in, helped also. Hard to explain, but the fact the Noise Harvesters are kind of glued down helps the tonal balance! (the Noise Harvesters are particularly floppy and do not 'sit' tight by themselves)
As the three are now seems pretty good. (I rolled a ring of BluTack and placed it around the base Harvester circumference, pressing it down in place, then patting the exposed BluTack to bind Noise Harvester to duplex face. If you never used the stuff, it can be cleanly peeled off even years later, any sticking, use the lump to 'pluck' remaining bits off. I have used this for years and years on AC plugs)
One N H at the five disc player on back of PS Audio P600. One on Furutech GTC gold duplex with plasma TV and in group (anywhere on the four duplex the Noise Harvesters will blink when the TV is on) With the Marantz on a Furutech GTX Rhodium NCF on back of Furman
(yes I put all Furutech GTX in both power conditioners)
The two duplex of the high power section do not get any of the noise from the TV across them. I use the high power on the Furman to run the preamps.
I will put one spare on the refrigerator. And one in another room..

toocool4

I used to think I had decent AC power because whatever passive power fixing devices I tried I could hear no benefit. We're 10 miles from a nuke plant, and have underground cables, 123V, 20A dedicated line to stereo, so I thought I was good. 

Then recently I auditioned a regenerator in my house. It displayed the clipped peaks of the incoming sinewave on its screen and calculated 4% THD. Wow, that was an eye opener! So much for my good power. The sound improvement was an even bigger surprise. I had no idea power quality could have the big of an effect.

I know they're expensive. I'm trying to save up for one now, and it will take a while. But imo, there's no other way to correct the clipped signal that we all get from the power company, except to redraw it from scratch. I wish it didn't matter, but it does make a huge difference.

It does not have to be very expensive, if you are willing to do a little work. I use an Emerson Liebert GXT4 a double conversion UPS meaning the AC is converted to DC then regenerated back to pure sine wave AC. Here is a Youtube demo of how it works https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI0_b0X4KXk and here is what i wrote about it https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=152774.0

rollo

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  Elizabeth great idea with Blu Tack.  Bonding to receptacle just makes good sense. The one on Ref. should pay off. My next purchase will be Gigawatt breakers. The G-C20A to be exact. No little fusible link that throttles the incoming AC. Made by Carling Technologies USA for Gigawatt. Standard DIN for USA panels.
Considering also Kemp Elektroniks Maximus P-40 Tachyon field generator. Check them out some other interesting products available. www.kempelectronics.com


charles

twitch54

Elizabeth, are you a 'Beet Farmer' ? or is someone else experiencing the same 'Harvester' issue?

https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=44562

Elizabeth

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Yes I am Beet Farmer at A.A.

Tonight I feel the five Noise Harvesters I have installed are the best I can do.
Sounds great.
I did add two N.H. to the amplifier line. The AC line is made up of a quad of 12 gauge. When I extended that line I left a duplex/box at the original terminus. So that is where I put the Harvesters on the amp line. With the quad wires, they go one pair to each side of the duplex, and then the connections continue same way.
So to equally use the Harvesters I really had to put two. Worked out.

SO as the story goes FIVE Noise Harvesters are ideal. and I agree.

I am back to thinking I may need to upgrade two power cords... Maybe after the Holiday Season.

Day later.. yes the five Noise Harvesters do seem ideal. Listening to Classical as I usually do in mornings.. great tonal balance. 
The one added location that seemed to ruin the balance was trying to add them to the Furman AC line in, and on the high current section of the Furman. Now the Furman has a large pair of noise cancelling devices stuck on the backs of the (built in) High current duplexes. (I had to take them off the OEM duplex and put them on the replacement Furutech GTX duplex) So it may be 'to much of a good thing' sort of problem.

Added: I must be on Santa's nice list. I am just seeing what the price is on the power cords I am interested in to buy like one 2m... and THEY ARE ON SALE. No waiting until after the Holidays. I can even go wild and buy two extra longr ones (4m) since they are $125 off each, ($250 instead of $375 for 4m and $180 instead of $225 for the 2m) on power cords I have never yet seen on sale. (Curiously the sale is only on the exact model I want to upgrade to.)
« Last Edit: 10 Dec 2018, 05:44 pm by Elizabeth »

G E

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...

ADDED: I was watching TV on my plasma screen... I had placed one Harvester in the same duplex on the back of my Furman conditioner as the Plasma TV plug. IT was blinking furiously due to the hash the TV sent out. I would say close to 3 blinks/second. Steady and even. None of that was on the other outlets of the Furman. I really have no reason to alter the way the plasma is connected to the AC. But it certainly does pollute the AC line when turned on.

I have a plasma set in my listening room attached to a surge protector.  Even if both devices are off but connected to my dedicated line, there is a bit of noise.  So I unplug it when not in use.

Elizabeth

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I have a plasma set in my listening room attached to a surge protector.  Even if both devices are off but connected to my dedicated line, there is a bit of noise.  So I unplug it when not in use.
I thought about moving the plasma cord, but since my TV doesn't cause any blinking when turned off... I decided to leave it in place.

G E

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« Last Edit: 14 Dec 2018, 05:16 pm by G E »

Elizabeth

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If you want to talk about a totally different topic.. Time to start your own thread. Do not cross thread!  :nono:
You post about wall treatments might be interesting.. but not in a totally different thread about power!

Elizabeth

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Well I went all in on Pangea power cords AGAIN This time on the 'on sale' Pangea AC14XL. First I bought three. (I think they 'know me' since they managed to get me the power cords OVERNIGHT FedEx even with free shipping...)
SO I CLEANED them. Slight polish the Edison blades with Meguiars Scratch X. then treat with Caig Gold. Then wrap each of the blades individually with 2" of white plumber's Teflon tape. push it down until it is just a little 2mm bump of tape at the base of the prongs. (this seals the plug to the duplex)
For the IEC I clean them by flattening Q-Tips (must be the paper stick type) pluck off half of the cotton, and flatten the stick ends with a pliers. Put some Scratch X on the swab and swab away INSIDE the IEC opening of the cord IEC plug. Wow the dirt in there!!! Pluck off more cotton, repeat pulling more dirt on the cotton and stick, even just the stick, no cotton pulls dirt out. ... Repeat. Then (just because I already own it.. Wipe the inside with  Caig RED cleaner stuff. New cotton swabbing and more dirt.. Then Caig Gold treatment into the holes. New clean swab. Done.
If you have NEVER cleaned inside a female IEC powercord end... You should. It sounds better clean.

Anyway, then With the improvement I heard, I ordered three more the same day I got the first set. One more day BLAM they are in my stereo...
Now I am telling myself.. ("I HAVE to stop" spending...) So I order only a 1 meter single cord.
USPS sent.. but it got here in 24 hours... Wow, things have changed during Christmas rush)
So I clean and plug it in... Dang! I just need two more what the H'.. SO I just bought two more, Maybe they will be here Friday.. or Saturday!
(I live like 260 highway miles from the store...Around the bottom of Lake Michigan. As the crow flies 90 miles across the water.)
« Last Edit: 21 Dec 2018, 12:02 am by Elizabeth »

rollo

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   Clean is good ENJOY !!!

charles

twitch54

Wow Elizabeth you're on a roll .......

AndrewA

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If understand correctly, the '14' models are only really good for low-powered components, and you need the Boa Constrictor-sized '11's for power amps.  Is that right?

Elizabeth

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I own some Pangea AC9SE too. I had them on the main preamp, and the input to my Furman REF20.. But I usually break in the new power cords on the Furman and the amplifier since they use the most watts playing or idling (on 24/7).
I also made two cords with DH Labs 12 gauge. and the DH Lab/Furutech is what is on the amp right now. It is a little more veiled than the XL (though about the same as the Pangea AC9SE Signature. (the other DH/Furutech was on the Conrad Johnson ACT2, which now has a XL
I ordered two more XL so I can leave an XL on on the amp.)
14 gauge ampacity is rated at 20 amps! )(Audiophiles go for major 'overkill' with amp cords though it is true they can sound better). BUT THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED.
What you should use is WHAT SOUNDS THE BEST. Not what some guru claims in the internet.

The XL definitely sound clearer than the SE even the 9SE Signature, on my amplifier.
Now maybe if Pangea made a XL in the 9 size instead of the 14 only?

Two things, with the XL getting broken in, they DO definitely sound clearer and better (particularly on the treble to me) than my old power cords. And I think they have a great synergy with the Furutech duplex.
When the Pangea AC14XL are plugged in, Right off they sound good, as good as the broken in AC14SE Signature. Day two the XL gain irritating treble.
Not much to mere mortals, but to me on my system annoying! (“That’s a joke, I say that’s a joke son" Foghorn Leghorn) So much so that I took the XL off the amp cuz' I could not stand the sound.. However it is going back on later... This is like the "Princess and the Pea" sort of complaint. (Fairy Tale of Princes so 'sensitive' that even a single pea (irritation) forty mattresses below, would keep her awake all night.. Good tale for Audiophiles)
Third day still a little annoying, but not as bad as day two.. By day five the irritation is gone, and in it's place the most GLORIOUS treble...

So the moral is: use your ears, not your eyes... for powercords.