Discovering I may have the cleanest (noise free) AC lines in America?

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Elizabeth

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PS Audio Noise Harvesters are on sale. $50 each.. So naturally I had to buy a pair. 36 hours later in my home.Well I clean the prongs, Caig Gold them, and plug them in.                                     
Nothing.                                 
Nothing.                                               
I am wondering broken? DOA?             
I move them to other outlets in the kitchen, in the bathroom (which has an air cleaner running from the same outlet) not on my stereo. OK a single blink.                         
I remember the dimmer thing. Plug the noise harvesters into the stereo again.. and turn on the only dimmer in the place (in the bedroom, on a different circuit)  KABLAM!!! Now they are blinking pretty regular. OK they are NOT broken.They also blink when I put them on a Adcom AC box also on different circuit than stereo. Both the Cable internet box and the WiFi box are on it. And yes they blink every minute or so.I checked the Furman REF 20 outlets, no blink. The duplex line direct to the amp.. no blink.              +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++             
So I apparently have just naturally the cleanest AC line in America? (For my stereo equipment.)       
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++             
Part of it may be the fact I packed the duplex enclosure 20 amp single line I use for the stereo with small quartz crystals coated with Automotive dielectric grease, in small baggies, the duplex is also the Furutech GTX NCF type, and the wall plugs are also filled with the loose small quartz crystals, plus some flattened baggies of the crystals wrapped around the outside shell of the plugs at the wall                                                 
Good thing I only ordered two of the Noise Harvesters. More are not needed. (and I actually do not even need the two. but that is OK. I can keep them as a sentinel, to know if I ever get noise on the lines.           
So I do not know if my home made anti noise crystals work magic? (along with the Furutech NCF which is basically a refined version of my own crystals) or if I really do have some of the cleanest AC around. (PS I live in a 90 unit apartment building, folks above below, around me. Things like my frig I have several ferrite cores with the AC zipcord wire wrapped in and around them, ditto air cleaners, lamps..

rollo

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Harvest that noise. Clean that power. Enjoy your music more. Good tip Elizabeth. We use DC blockers in the power conditioner along with those Harvester thingies to excellent affect.


charles

Tyson

I bought a used P10 a while back, might be the single best audio purchase I've ever made.  Especially if you have tube equipment and/or sensitive speakers. 

Elizabeth

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Seven years ago I bought a used PS Audio P-600 to go with my Furman REF 20.
They do a good job too.  :thumb:

ADDED: I realized I can search out and adjust items spewing HF garbage. I discovered only the laptop power supply was the problem. around my Adcom PC. So I moved it to another line.
And the plasma TV, but only when it is turned on!
I have it in the Furman REF 20, but since it is only when it is turned on, not a big deal.
I may try to think of a better way to isolate it?
Plus doing a bit of fooling around with the dimmer (adding crystals behind it in the box) lowered the spew by 50%
I also noted it dos not spew when off, or on full, only when actually 'dimming'
« Last Edit: 27 Nov 2018, 10:24 pm by Elizabeth »

brj

You can pick up a 'budget buzz stick' for about $20 and walk around your house to see what devices are leaking radiated emissions.  This isn't the same as the conducted emissions that you're attempting to address with power conditioning or regeneration, but I'd guess that if a device is radiating, it's also dumping noise on your lines.

It's a rather enlightening exercise...

Folsom

They could be attenuating noise even when they don't light up. The light only tells you there for sure is something, it can't actually tell you there isn't.

Elizabeth

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"budget buzz stick"???
A Greenlee GT-16 is a AC radiation sniffer. ANY AC power flowing without a shield, it can find. The worst offenders are open duplex (no plug) AC wall plugs in general. Zip cord, lamp cords. (My pole lamps metal shaft light it up on or off. This is not 'noise' in the sense of noise IN the power.
This has NOTHING to do with the high frequency hash being discussed when talking about the PS Audio Noise Harvester.

The AC line should be only a single unwavering 60Hz. IT never is. There is always some additive frequencies on the AC.
Thus the reason for conditioners, regenerators.
The Noise Harvesters do not clean right down to 61Hz! I think they are much higher frequency range.
Here is a direct quote from Paul McGwan: " we would look at the Harvester like this. A simple product designed to reduce power line noise above 10kHz. On its input there is a capacitor and a choke (inductor or magnetic device) placed across the power line, forming a simple bandpass filter. At the junction of these two elements energy is singled out at a specific frequency range. We then siphon off the noise energy and use it to fill up a capacitor. When the capacitor gets enough of the energy stored, it triggers an SCR which sends that energy to an LED and the light blinks; thus converting the noise energy to light. Bingo, the noise is removed from the line." 

As for attenuating noise if they do not light up? That is not how they are designed. They DO save up an amount of 'noise' until it is enough to rigger the light. If say in an hour, two hours they have not 'saved' enough to blink. Then there is not enough in/on the line to make it blink.
SO, it is 'doing nothing'. Most folks showing them, they're blinking like crazy, several in system, all blinking like crazy. Each one blinking up is destroying some of the hash in the line(s)

ADDED: I was watching TV on my plasma screen... I had placed one Harvester in the same duplex on the back of my Furman conditioner as the Plasma TV plug. IT was blinking furiously due to the hash the TV sent out. I would say close to 3 blinks/second. Steady and even. None of that was on the other outlets of the Furman. I really have no reason to alter the way the plasma is connected to the AC. But it certainly does pollute the AC line when turned on.

Samoyed

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Liz, you crack me up. :popcorn:
« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2018, 04:01 pm by Samoyed »

S Clark

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AC?? 
Folsom amp-  24v DC
Dodd preamp- 24v DC
Dodd phono pre - 12v DC
Signal from my Blackbird cartridge-- 2.5mV DC

However, my TT motor is AC, but not directly connected to anything that delivers an electrical current to the rest of the system. 
Clean AC?  Not a concern.  :popcorn:

Letitroll98

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Liz, you crack me up. May I suggest a foil lined chapeau?   :lol:

I'm not sure how to take your post Samoyed.  I'm viewing it as a personal attack which is not allowed, and as a jackass comment, an official term defined in the guidelines.   If I'm correct please delete the post, if I'm not please explain.   Thank you in either case.

Phil A

Been using Noise Harvesters for years.  Recently, I had a couple of friends over and first one bought a couple and then the other.  The second friend's didn't light up so he swapped temporarily with the second friend and evidently there was a problem so he returned his and the new ones light up.  Each of them wanted a third Noise Harvester (so they were $75 each or 2 for $100) and I split it with them and put them in spare systems.  So I would return them.

Samoyed

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« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2018, 04:01 pm by Samoyed »

Phil A

It’s a joke about her expensive gear, often more of art than science.  :icon_lol:  On another site, she frequently posts about fringe elements, like fuses....

I don't talk about my fuses (and yes I do have upgraded ones in a bunch of pieces).  Whatever happens inside of my equipment stays there :green:

Elizabeth

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Thanks
« Last Edit: 28 Nov 2018, 04:55 pm by Elizabeth »

rollo

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Keep it coming Elizabeth. Enjoy reading about your findings. Clean power and how one gets there is an interesting subject for me. I as well do allot of experimenting. Use two [20A, 8ga cryo treated Romex] dedicated lines [ 4 available] from sub-panel with a Gigawatt PC2SE conditioner for digital, preamp and TT. Use a Gigawatt power strip for mono block amps.
 I only ground the conditioners and preamp. The powercords to all other gear are un-grounded. Two Acoustic Revive R-888 Shuman Resonaters finish the deal.
  Fooled around with Alan Mayer crystal thingies at receptacles and panel however felt they added a brightness to sound.

charles

Folsom

Vinyl lady has a bunch of them. It is like a mini light show around the perimeter of her room.

Elizabeth

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PS Audio Noise Harvesters.. Just put five more in system, for a total of seven.
First I cleaned off the prongs with Meguiars Scratch X to remove plating crude. (yes the cleaning towel gets black stuff from the new prongs. Then I coat them with Caig Gold. And wrap the blades with Teflon plumbers tape, and push it down to just cover the gap from Duplex to Noise Harvester base (yes I do this to ALL AC plugs).
Placed two on Amp line in a separate duplex before the amp duplex.
two in Furman REF 20 low level (one with TV duplex one with Marantz SA-10 duplex) and one with high current part used for my preamps. One at AC plug for Furman power. And the final one at the duplex from PS Audio P-600 to my cheap in use five disc changer.
Immediate sound seems to be more treble energy compared to rest of music spectrum, cleaner treble, a little sweeter treble.(I was/am playing Classical chamber music, so it is all treble and midrange anyway.. And yes blacker background. How ?? it was black before.. Now it is blacker black.
Just stuck them in, (I actually turned on the plasma TV to test each one. yes they go blinkin' crazy for the plasma TV on the TV AC duplex)
What they do is pretty subtle. But my lines seemed clean anyway. Since the gist is one needed at least five to really hear the difference, Why not. So seven it is.
If my impressions change I will post more info later on.
ADDED: watch said plasma TV, noticed less grain. But naturally only on better resolution material. Oddly even PBS "Arthur" cartoon, the sudden increase in the flatness IE lack of grain, in the color blobs was noticeable.
Added later: also seems the low level detail in Classical music is a bit easier to hear. When orchestral music drops to like one instrument playing softly... Used to be it would kind of unintelligible unless I had the music turned up higher than I like. Now the sound is clear enough the detail comes through even though it is just a little above the threshold of hearing it. So I do not have to turn the level up and can still hear it...
« Last Edit: 6 Dec 2018, 03:43 pm by Elizabeth »

OzarkTom

It was Enid Lumley, working for TAS back in the 80's that first complained about AC noise in the audio world. She was very controversial back then. Harry Pearson followed suit and even started recommending battery power to get away from AC line lines. Some do not hear it, but for those that do, it is very annoying.

I cleaned mine up with the AC IFI IPurifiers. I probably had the dirtiest of the AC noise.
PS Harvesters probably work the same way.

Elizabeth

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Seven PS Audio Noise Harvesters, at least the way I had them arranged is a no go. Too lean sound and tipped to treble for my taste.
Even though the devices are not blinking, they are changing the tonal balance of my system. Same as multiple power conditioners etc.
My system in general just is on a fine line between clarity and too lean, and has been for years, deliberately.
Part of it is the way I want to tame the bass, so it is not annoying thorough walls. So in a sense the narrow edge is of my own making. and I want the system to stay just this side of lean. Maximising the clarity, without making it sound lean. Sadly the seven Noise Harvesters are pushing it over the edge.
I took them all out, Listened, and then put back just two. And the sound is good. I will have to experiment and see if some others can go back in different places.
ADDED later: I still am just using two. I noted they are better if I add BluTack to around the Noise Harvester base to the Duplex face..  so they cannot wobble around (which they can since they do not firmly sit on the duplex)
« Last Edit: 7 Dec 2018, 06:10 pm by Elizabeth »

richidoo

I used to think I had decent AC power because whatever passive power fixing devices I tried I could hear no benefit. We're 10 miles from a nuke plant, and have underground cables, 123V, 20A dedicated line to stereo, so I thought I was good. 

Then recently I auditioned a regenerator in my house. It displayed the clipped peaks of the incoming sinewave on its screen and calculated 4% THD. Wow, that was an eye opener! So much for my good power. The sound improvement was an even bigger surprise. I had no idea power quality could have the big of an effect.

I know they're expensive. I'm trying to save up for one now, and it will take a while. But imo, there's no other way to correct the clipped signal that we all get from the power company, except to redraw it from scratch. I wish it didn't matter, but it does make a huge difference.