Power cables

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ajzepp

Re: Power cables
« Reply #40 on: 22 Dec 2018, 03:36 am »

 :lol:


For so long, I believed that cables were not supposed to make a difference in the sound. I just bought some better, not too expensive IC's just because I bought some new equipment and thought I should have something better than "patch cords". I was not expecting anything nor did I have ANY expectations at all..... until I heard the difference.


Granted, it's not a night and day difference but noticeable enough for me. It's always most noticeable when I crank it up. Up goes the volume on cheap stuff and I cringe as my hearing/mind just can't take the harshness and I HAVE to turn it down. With the better cords, I can turn it up louder and longer.

Well I sure hope I dont ever hear any difference with cables...aftermarket power cords are expensive enough! lol

FullRangeMan

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #41 on: 22 Dec 2018, 11:18 am »
Expensive and the connectors are unreliable, all my cables lost grip on the amp and at the equip famale connector after some years, the connectors should have screw at least on the equipment female connector.
« Last Edit: 23 Dec 2018, 11:00 am by FullRangeMan »

charmerci

Re: Power cables
« Reply #42 on: 22 Dec 2018, 04:57 pm »
Well I sure hope I dont ever hear any difference with cables...aftermarket power cords are expensive enough! lol


This is a very expensive hobby. If my friends knew how much I spend on audio equipment, they'd think I was crazy - and I only spend at just over the AC's Cheap and Cheerful limit!

Elizabeth

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #43 on: 22 Dec 2018, 07:12 pm »
Flying aircraft is WAY more expensive.
Racing cars also more expensive, and riskier.
but racing RC vehicles would be about the same cost.
Golf is on par.....  :roll:

RDavidson

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #44 on: 23 Dec 2018, 03:39 am »

This is a very expensive hobby. If my friends knew how much I spend on audio equipment, they'd think I was crazy - and I only spend at just over the AC's Cheap and Cheerful limit!

Yeah. Most non-hobbyists don't understand why audio things cost so much nor why one would spend that much. I think it's often just a matter of exposure. Once one hears music they truly love reproduced on a nice system, it's not as hard for them to get their head around the cost...even if they still may not completely agree with it.

sonicxtc

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #45 on: 23 Dec 2018, 04:25 am »
Quote
Yeah. Most non-hobbyists don't understand why audio things cost so much nor why one would spend that much. I think it's often just a matter of exposure

Agreed. We had a party this evening of about a dozen guests. A few of them had been here before and they started encouraging others to go "check out his stereo" and I played some requests. "Wow, those are amazing speakers," one woman said. The point is that with some exposure some people really do "get it" and value it even if they might not wish to take the time to assemble such a system or spend the money to do so.

Back to power cords. Yes, they absolutely can make a significant difference; akin to upgrading a component. I've read so many threads where people who have NOT even tried a number of high end power cords INSIST they cannot make a difference based on this or that "reasoning." I have listened to MAC, Pangea, and moved on to higher ground with Cullen Cable, Zenwave and TWL. You can bet your ears power cords make a difference!  Once you hear it, you won't go back and you won't question it. 

Yes, I too could doubt how electricity that has traveled MANY miles through various transformers, a circuit breaker box, dozens of feet of Romex cable, etc. can somehow be magically transformed into producing BETTER SOUND by merely running through 6 feet of audiophile grade power cord. However, I cannot refute the evidence--good power cords DO improve sound quality. 




ajzepp

Re: Power cables
« Reply #46 on: 23 Dec 2018, 04:51 am »
Agreed. We had a party this evening of about a dozen guests. A few of them had been here before and they started encouraging others to go "check out his stereo" and I played some requests. "Wow, those are amazing speakers," one woman said. The point is that with some exposure some people really do "get it" and value it even if they might not wish to take the time to assemble such a system or spend the money to do so.

Back to power cords. Yes, they absolutely can make a significant difference; akin to upgrading a component. I've read so many threads where people who have NOT even tried a number of high end power cords INSIST they cannot make a difference based on this or that "reasoning." I have listened to MAC, Pangea, and moved on to higher ground with Cullen Cable, Zenwave and TWL. You can bet your ears power cords make a difference!  Once you hear it, you won't go back and you won't question it. 

Yes, I too could doubt how electricity that has traveled MANY miles through various transformers, a circuit breaker box, dozens of feet of Romex cable, etc. can somehow be magically transformed into producing BETTER SOUND by merely running through 6 feet of audiophile grade power cord. However, I cannot refute the evidence--good power cords DO improve sound quality.


I did some unscientific A/B comparing tonight between the stock power cord on my Butler amp and the Cullen one I have in-house. Especially when I get right up next to the speaker, there is some low level distortion/hiss present with the stock cable that somehow goes way with the Cullen. It seems to create a darker background overall, akin to having greater contrast and black levels on a video display. I can't really say if the music or vocals THEMSELVES sound better, it's more like they are better able to be presented because the backdrop is cleaned up a bit. Not sure if that makes any sense, but so far that's what Im noticing. (And anyone who owns Maggies can attest to the fact that you will hear EVERY change you make in your system.)

On a side note, I just ordered this cable to try on the projector since the physical plug on the Cullen was too large for the way my projector is designed.
http://signalcable.com/videopower.html

Also, patrick at cullen cable is going to hack up this 10' beast (that I originally purchased for the projector, but I ended up really liking on the amp instead) into two 5' cords for me.

I guess you could say I'm a convert! Now I'm looking at replacing three outlets with the filtering outlets that Patrick sells...DAMN THIS HOBBY!!!

ajzepp

Re: Power cables
« Reply #47 on: 23 Dec 2018, 04:56 am »

This is a very expensive hobby. If my friends knew how much I spend on audio equipment, they'd think I was crazy - and I only spend at just over the AC's Cheap and Cheerful limit!

Yes indeed! To Sonic's point, I have often had friends (usually female friends) give me the stink eye when I tell them what I've spent on this hobby, but when they see my projector set up or listen to my headphone rig, they almost always will make a comment indicating they can appreciate the effort and expense.

I also tend to toss out a line that as much as many of us are caught up in the pursuit of resolution and detail, overall it's a testament to the artist, whether it's a musician, composer, filmmaker, etc...I think it's important to never lose sight of that, and in an indirect way we're supporting the art. That's how I've always looked at it, anyway. Without the art, most of this is pretty pointless, IMO.

Elizabeth

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #48 on: 24 Dec 2018, 09:45 pm »
This afternoon just ordered two more Pangea AC14XL power cords. Brings the total to eleven of them (total spent on them $2,000)
IS the improvement worth $2000?
Yes. no question.

I certainly would never have been able to hear the difference as well as I do now, if I had not previously upgraded all the wall and power conditioner and extension duplex to Furutech GTX!
And I would not have decided to buy the Furutech if I had not upgraded some power cords earlier this year and noticed a significant improvement.
And none of it would have happened had I not upgraded my speakers this Spring to Magnepan 20.7. And my DAc to a Marantz SACD SA-10.
The moral is never upgrade.... one upgrade always leads to another. and another and another
  :popcorn:

zoom25

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #49 on: 24 Dec 2018, 10:01 pm »
This afternoon just ordered two more Pangea AC14XL power cords. Brings the total to eleven of them (total spent on them $2,000)
IS the improvement worth $2000?
Yes. no question.

I certainly would never have been able to hear the difference as well as I do now, if I had not previously upgraded all the wall and power conditioner and extension duplex to Furutech GTX!
And I would not have decided to buy the Furutech if I had not upgraded some power cords earlier this year and noticed a significant improvement.
And none of it would have happened had I not upgraded my speakers this Spring to Magnepan 20.7. And my DAc to a Marantz SACD SA-10.
The moral is never upgrade.... one upgrade always leads to another. and another and another
  :popcorn:

Hi Elizabeth,

How much have you spent in room acoustics, if any? Just a query, not a tongue-in-cheek comment!

Elizabeth

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #50 on: 24 Dec 2018, 11:21 pm »
Room treatments? just for the stereo and otherwise not for anything? Zero.
The only things I have I would call room treatments 'for the stereo' are two sets of floor to ceiling shelving to back of to the side of each side of speakers, filled with slim pack (rather than the standard thick case) DVD movies etc. The curtains I have anyway, which are heavy and lined, puller back so they fold on the back wall next to the floor to ceiling shelving. So the rear corners are 'treated' with natural objects.
That's it. I have zero interest in doing more.
The only thing I might like to try would be making some devices for the lower 1/3 of back wall.. those staggered blocks of wood things. But that is very unlikely to happen.

I have to say I have never felt any worry about frequency response evenness of any kind due to the room. I would have to actually CARE.. And that is not gonna happen.
Other sound stuff? yeah I care, but the room? nope. (other than trying to place the speakers 'well'.)
I would say it is like power cords. I never ever thought about them until I happened to be able to buy one CHEAPER than I could make (the original Pangea AC9) And that changed my mind. Same thing for 'room treatments' IMO who cares?. SO if magically I find something that 'open's my ears' in room treatments??? Until then it just is not gonna happen.

zoom25

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #51 on: 24 Dec 2018, 11:57 pm »
Cool, good to know. I think you'd be blown away with room treatment. As much as I love tweaking, I have to admit that room acoustics are on a whole another plane in terms of the difference it makes. For $2000 one could get some decent thick full range panels. A few GIK monster traps at first reflections on side walls and ceiling. Perhaps something for the corners as well and rear wall.

Room treatment isn't done only for controlling frequency response of the room and thus the system, but also for controlling reflection/reverberation time. There can be so much masking done due to the sound bouncing all over the place. With your level of system, you'd be stunned at just how much clearer the picture becomes.

I think with your passion to experiment, if you were to hear the difference with and without, room tweaks would undoubtedly jump to #1 on your tweak list.  :thumb:

Elizabeth

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #52 on: 25 Dec 2018, 01:06 am »
Reading that I just wince.... Seriously, Last thing I need it 'more fiddling'.  :thumb:
But maybe someday, just I need time to rest up from all the fooling around I have already done this year.  :lol:

JerryLove

Re: Power cables
« Reply #53 on: 25 Dec 2018, 02:14 am »
Unless you have a faulty one (in which case, path-to-ground can be an issue) power cords make no difference. There's no blind testing that indicates they do, there's no electrical reason they should, and there's no logical way they can.

Indeed: unless defective or *very* badly chosen (500' run to 2ohm speakers on 24ga speaker wire); the only cable that's really going to cause degradation (as opposed to complete failure, as with bad HDMI over too long a run) is the RCA cable... which can pick up interference (either use well shielded or XLR if doing a long run through a difficult environment).

Meanwhile: most people haven't even begun to take full advantage of the gains that can be gotten through room treatment, room correction, and proper placement of speakers and listening positions.

Letitroll98

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #54 on: 25 Dec 2018, 02:57 am »
Thanks so much for your opinion Jerry.  Unfortunately that opinion is decidedly in the minority here, especially so on this thread, which is about skeptics actually hearing differences in power cords.   I can't be sure why you posted it here, perhaps looking for converts, I would hope not just trolling for an arguement, in any case your thoughts are duly noted.

JerryLove

Re: Power cables
« Reply #55 on: 25 Dec 2018, 03:11 am »
Thanks so much for your opinion Jerry.  Unfortunately that opinion is decidedly in the minority here, especially so on this thread, which is about skeptics actually hearing differences in power cords.   I can't be sure why you posted it here, perhaps looking for converts, I would hope not just trolling for an arguement, in any case your thoughts are duly noted.
I'm sorry. I don't understand the point of your posting this. It seems a bit like flame-baiting. Perhaps you can rephrase your point so that I can understand how it is constructive. Or should I read your handle, letittroll, and come to the obvious conclusion?

kernelbob

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #56 on: 25 Dec 2018, 03:40 am »
My experience is that the impact when I installed MasterBuilt power cords was nothing short of dramatic.  The biggest impact has been with using them on my four monoblock power amps (two tubed and two solid state) that power my VSA VR100XS.  An active preamp also benefits as does a DAC.  Even using them on the pair of XS subwoofers obviously improves the sound (much more that I would have expected).

This is just my experience, no flaming intended.
Robert

Tom Bombadil

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #57 on: 25 Dec 2018, 05:10 am »
I find the whole power cords topic to be so confusing.

I have heard differences and passed blind tests on CD players, DACs, power amps, preamps, line stage tubes and output tubes.   Not passing every one of them, but several.

But I've never been able to hear a difference between power cords.  Not on my DACs, preamps, SS power amps, tube power amps, or anything.  I've used many different power cords, from the inexpensive stock cords to heavier duty shielded cords to boutique power cords.  They all sound exactly the same to me. 

If I heard an improvement, I would gladly pay more to obtain it.  I present run heavy duty 14/3 shielded power cords made for use in network and data centers.  They cost about $10-$15 each.   If they are good enough to carry high current and reject noise in a network center then surely they are more than sufficient in a home environment.  And as I can't hear any differences, they are good enough in the audio realm for me too.

Cheytak.408

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #58 on: 25 Dec 2018, 05:16 am »
1.   Unless you have a faulty one (in which case, path-to-ground can be an issue)

2.   power cords make no difference.

3.   There's no blind testing that indicates they do,

4.   there's no electrical reason they should,

5.    there's no logical way they can.

1.    No doubt

2.    From your experience or just a guess?

3.    Not true.  There are many blind and double blind test out there where 10 of 10 is commonplace.

4.    Not true.  There are plenty of reasons that the should and do.  There is more than inductance, capacitance and resistance at work in properly designed cabling.

5.    Logic without all of the facts is simply opinion.

Not trying to invite flames or arguments.  I’ve just been involved in too many double blind tests where cables of all types are identifiable every swap.  That and having 40 years in cable design.   :eyebrows:

Letitroll98

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Re: Power cables
« Reply #59 on: 25 Dec 2018, 06:13 am »
I'm sorry. I don't understand the point of your posting this. It seems a bit like flame-baiting. Perhaps you can rephrase your point so that I can understand how it is constructive. Or should I read your handle, letittroll, and come to the obvious conclusion?

Jerry, I'm the facilitator on this circle and don't appreciate your troll baiting post, it's that clear enough?  Please don't post in this circle again, you're not being constructive.