Evolution DAC

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Samoyed

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #80 on: 17 Dec 2018, 11:33 pm »
DAC-10 is already so good, so there isn't any particular weakness with DAC-10.
What I can hear is Evo DAC opens up another layer of clarity (that you never know it was there, that's the interesting thing about high end audio).
I think main improvement comes from the power supply and power circuit.  There are quite a few implementation of ESS9038 on the market and the result is all over the place (without disparaging competitors).  The performance of ESS9038 over 9028 and 9018 is minor, due to diminishing return.
But coupled with a completely redesigned power circuit, everything adds up. 
I think we all understand that high end audio is about matching system performance, so the same principle applies to board level components.

This is what I’m hearing, a NEW and higher level of clarity, detail and soundstage!

As for warmth, for me the 10 had it, so I’m not hearing anything new, here.

Samac

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #81 on: 18 Dec 2018, 12:01 am »
Just set it up. Perfect packaging, and the unit’s workmanship is lovely. No paper manual, so either it was omitted or this one is only on line. I’m having trouble finding unit gain.

Initial impressions of the sound with the cdt 8 pro, using an hdmi cable, are:

1. Lovely liquid sound, slightly more so than the DAC 10;

2. Better soundstage and detail than the 10; and,

3. Amazing detail that comes up out of total silence!

More to come....

 :thumb:

Congratulations, Samoyed. The Evo Dac looks excellent. I love my IDA-16 and I'm really hoping that the NuPrime team takes what they have done with the Evolution line and create an Evolution integrated amp/Dac.

Enjoy the music.

Cheers,

Scott

envydd

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #82 on: 18 Dec 2018, 01:30 am »
@samac I would buy that integrated in a heartbeat. I am super happy with my HD-AVA (IDA16 guts)! Hence would be a good upgrade if it has the upsampling. That and the CDT8

Samoyed

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #83 on: 18 Dec 2018, 01:31 am »
All the Roadrunning. Emmylou Hariris and Mark Knophler. Detail, soundstage and speed are fantastic! :D

RafaPolit

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #84 on: 18 Dec 2018, 02:29 pm »
Great to hear you finally got your DAC Samoyed and that you are enjoying it so much!  That is the only thing that matters: that we finally get to enjoy the music we so much like to hear.

Good luck,
Rafa.

RafaPolit

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #85 on: 18 Dec 2018, 02:29 pm »
Oh, by the way... I have asked this before but, what are the factory installed OpAmps that come with the EvoDac?  What are the options for OpAmp rolling?

Thanks,
Rafa.

Samac

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #86 on: 18 Dec 2018, 03:19 pm »
@samac I would buy that integrated in a heartbeat. I am super happy with my HD-AVA (IDA16 guts)! Hence would be a good upgrade if it has the upsampling. That and the CDT8

You have a great set-up, envydd. :thumb: NuPrime has a great line-up already but, like you, I am looking forward to what they might developed in the "super integrated" category. After living with the IDA-16 for nearly two years I am convinced I want to stay with a one box amp/dac solution for my system. :thumb:

Cheers,

Scott

Samoyed

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #87 on: 18 Dec 2018, 10:32 pm »
I am going to provide (1) a preliminary review of the Nuprime Evolution DAC, and (2) compare it to the only other free standing DAC I’ve owned, the Nuprime DAC10.  My review should be weighed by my experience, beginning in 1969 with the original AR integrated amp, and the understanding that I’ve only gone “all” digital six months ago, with a Bluesound Node 2.  I am a layman and hobbyist, new to streaming and all that implies.  The Evolution and a Nuprime CDT 8 Pro are now connected to a Kinki Studio’s EX M1, which also uses a Bluesound Node 2 , and the speakers are KEF R900’s connected with Transparent cables. In time I’ll try it with a Rotel RC 1590 and RB 1590.

I will start with my preliminary conclusions:

The on-line manual is inadequate for my purposes in that it appears to assume the consumer has more than a basic understanding of a dac/preamp’s functions;
Workmanship of the exterior is excellent and very attractive in black;
The remote is far superior to the old “wand” style of the DAC10, and is powered by simple, AAA batteries, unlike the wand, which are included; and,
The sound with red book compact discs, the only source yet tried, played through a CDT Pro 8, is nothing less than absolutely wonderful, as if yet another  step closer has been taken toward live music-it is as described by a Nuprime poster, a further “evolution” over the outstanding DAC10.  (The same poster describes the EVO’s sound as warm, versus the DAC10, yet I found the tonality very similar, though mid-range male and female vocals do sound  better with the EVO.)

Fedex delivered the Evolution quickly.  It left Taiwan on a Friday, and arrived at my Seattle home the next Monday.  It was packed in a well-padded, fitted box, inside a thick cardboard box.  The inner box contained a thick power cord, a metal remote identical in form to that of the CDT 8 Pro, two AAA batteries and the DAC.  The DAC is enclosed in an opaque, white plastic bag, with several moisture absorbing bags.  The remote and power cord are neatly stowed underneath the DAC.

I was struck by how heavy the Evolution is, and its beautiful black finish that is identical to my CDT 8 Pro.  The on-line manual (I did not receive a paper version) advises one to determine proper local voltage and a sticker on the DAC warns that it is set to 220 volts, and the bottom mounted switch should be properly set.  I set mine for U.S. voltage, put it in place in my Salamander and made a power connection.  My Kinki Studios EX M1 is an integrated amp, and I used Cardas Clear Light XLR cables to connect the DAC to it, with Nuprime’s HDMI cable used to connect the CDT 8 Pro to the DAC.  The visual combination is very, very pleasing and consistent.

After making all necessary connections, I turned the rear mounted power switch on, and a blue led lit, showing the DAC was in standby.  I then used the remote to turn it on, and got the bonus: my LG OLED tv came on, too!  (I’m still pondering how deal with that….)   The display showed a usb input, and began counting the volume up to 50.  I used the input knob, not the remote, to select the HDMI input, and set it to 94, assuming that would be close to unity gain as with the DAC 10.  (I’m still trying to figure out if I should use a fixed output.)  I started a CD and the Kinki came to life, much louder than the DAC 10 with similar settings.

I tried some of the many menu settings and quickly gave up to listen.  What I heard and am hearing is hard to explain-the music simply flows in a very liquid, pleasing manner, with a very WIDE and detailed soundstage.  As good as I think the DAC10 sounds (compared to the dac in my Rotel RC 1590 and Bluesound Node 2), this one is truly an “evolution” above it.  I’m hearing details in CD’s I hadn’t heard before, and strings are lovely.  I enjoy organs recorded in churches, and the sense of space and decay is astonishing-it’s like something intangible that just sits in the room!  You can point to its invisible boundaries!  If you have a good recording, everything is positioned in the stereo image with great accuracy and separation.  You can easily tell how many people are singing, and where they are in the field.  Again, it is hard to describe the overall effect, but voices are lovely and you immediately know it is superior to the DAC 10.  (I have a Rotel RC 1590 preamp and RB 1590 amp that I’ll try, next.)

Sum: I may or may not need the preamp section (that remains to be seen), but it is stunningly quiet and well-designed, and the DAC provides the most natural, liquid and DETAILED musical sound I’ve heard in nearly 50 years of this hobby.  Am I glad I bought it?  Hell, yes!  (After the first of the year, I’ll report back.)

If you want Nuprime, look up John Casler, or pm me for details.  The combination of Nuprime and John is as good as it gets! :thumb:

mr_bill

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #88 on: 19 Dec 2018, 01:27 am »
You must like your Kinki integrated too.
Does Evolution have a volume control?

Samoyed

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #89 on: 19 Dec 2018, 01:31 am »
The Kinki is great!

Yes, the Evolution has a very sophisticated volume control, both on the DAC and its remote.

rustydoglim

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #90 on: 21 Dec 2018, 07:00 pm »
Oh, by the way... I have asked this before but, what are the factory installed OpAmps that come with the EvoDac?  What are the options for OpAmp rolling?

Thanks,
Rafa.

In due time, our engineers are too busy and I am tied up with so much marketing work to do.  If you open up and can't figure out the opamp pins by looking at the circuit board, then you shouldn't be changing it.  The OpAmp has markings on it, so you can look up the spec online.

Samoyed

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #91 on: 21 Dec 2018, 07:02 pm »
Rusty, where is unity gain?  Thanks

rustydoglim

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #92 on: 21 Dec 2018, 07:25 pm »
I have to find out from R&D about unity gain.

By the way, there should be a paper manual inside but I think they forgot to put it in, or the manual couldn't make it in time.
Is there anyone with Evo DAC and Evo One set?

I think it will be mid year or later for the ultimate integrated.  The R&D process is always to develop the latest state of the art, and then trickle down to other lower level products.
Evo One brought innovation in amp and input impedance designs.
Evo DAC brought innovation in power supply and filter designs (the DAC chip is just an incremental update).
Omnia S1 will bring the very long delayed Android core (for media server, streaming, app) in the products.
The high end integrated will be a combination of all these innovations in a well integrated compromised design. 
Even if you only have the 9 series, the upcoming Pure AC-4 power filter device could make the entire stack of components sound better.

Samoyed

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #93 on: 21 Dec 2018, 07:35 pm »
I did NOT get a paper manual with my Evo DAC.

I’d appreciate info on unity gain when you can get it.

In the meantime, I’ll continue to enjoy it!

Samoyed

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #94 on: 21 Dec 2018, 07:41 pm »
I’m listening to the Evo DAC right now.

Lovely!

But, I disagree: it is several steps above the dac10 in sound, and I absolutely loved the dac10.

Samac

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #95 on: 21 Dec 2018, 07:48 pm »
Thanks for the update on the Ultimate/IDA-32 integrated, Jason.

Cheers,

Scott

kaka89

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #96 on: 22 Dec 2018, 04:13 pm »
I have to find out from R&D about unity gain.

By the way, there should be a paper manual inside but I think they forgot to put it in, or the manual couldn't make it in time.
Is there anyone with Evo DAC and Evo One set?

I think it will be mid year or later for the ultimate integrated.  The R&D process is always to develop the latest state of the art, and then trickle down to other lower level products.
Evo One brought innovation in amp and input impedance designs.
Evo DAC brought innovation in power supply and filter designs (the DAC chip is just an incremental update).
Omnia S1 will bring the very long delayed Android core (for media server, streaming, app) in the products.
The high end integrated will be a combination of all these innovations in a well integrated compromised design. 
Even if you only have the 9 series, the upcoming Pure AC-4 power filter device could make the entire stack of components sound better.

Why didn't Evo One use the same power supply design as Evo Dac does?
Does this new power supply design only work for DAC?

rustydoglim

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #97 on: 23 Dec 2018, 04:14 pm »
Quote
Why didn't Evo One use the same power supply design as Evo Dac does?
Does this new power supply design only work for DAC?

One is a DAC with low power requirement, the other is an amp  :scratch:

kaka89

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Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #98 on: 24 Dec 2018, 03:30 am »
One is a DAC with low power requirement, the other is an amp  :scratch:

I was asking because I thought Pure AC-4's technology comes from the latest Evo's power supply, but didn't know the power supply design is different on Evo One and Evo Dac.

I'm interested to know would Pure AC-4 have a positive effect on both Dac and Amp, but I think it is a bit off topic here.

rustydoglim

Re: Evolution DAC
« Reply #99 on: 26 Dec 2018, 04:31 am »
We should provide an article on Power Supplies, hopefully, we will have one available before Feb 2019.
Power Supply is just a general term and it refers to many designs ranging from high voltage/high current AC adapter (ie. AC/DC) to DC/DC converter chips. For AC adapters there are two different designs: Linear or Switching.
Furthermore, power and ground layout has a very significant impact on performance.
Just like software (database, UI, smartphone app, device driver, ...), power engineering is a huge area where engineers only specialize in a specific area.  And it is often overlooked in many audio designs. And customers ended up spending too much on power cords and other external noise filtering devices.

Think of the device as a city. The most challenging is integrated amp where you have a mix of high power amp circuit and sensitive DAC circuit. How can you have a quiet bike only neighborhood next to a race track?  :duh:  So that means putting up sound barriers (ie noise filter) like those you see along the highway, and very carefully route your traffic (ie power and ground wires).  The reality is much more complex than this analogy.