[lokie]

I believe that Anand was suggesting testing the analog XLR output from the DAC to the analog XLR inputs to the DCX, thus eliminating the pre-amp as a variable.  You'd need a pair of XLR cables.

(But yes, input C is the digital input, if you wanted to try connecting your source to that input for testing.)

Basically, you're trying to isolate whether the DCX analog inputs are working or not.  You need to know whether you have a good XLR input signal in order to exclude everything upstream of the DCX as a possible problem.  Ideally, you'd test the same pre-amp outputs that you're using into the DCX into another system to confirm that the pre-amp is passing a good signal.  If it is, then you can focus your efforts on the DCX exclusively.

Got it.

[lokie]

Connected XLR from the ANDAC to the 2496 and both the inputs and outputs lit up like a Christmas tree.

It has never looked like that coming from my Pre-Amp. Even when it worked.

[lokie]

 

[brj]

Excellent - nice work!

So that leaves the pre-amp and the cables on either side of it, and potentially the RCA outputs of the DAC.  You normally run RCA-to-RCA from DAC to pre, and RCA-to-XLR cables from pre to DCX?

What happens if you use the RCA-to-XLR cables going from the DAC to the DCX?

[poseidonsvoice]

Connected XLR from the ANDAC to the 2496 and both the inputs and outputs lit up like a Christmas tree.

It has never looked like that coming from my Pre-Amp. Even when it worked.

School of hard knocks. That's my point. The Emotive preamp is fine I am sure, it's also $16K (when new); I am sure you absolutely love it but as it stands now, it's not going to work in your system as configured if you want to use the Behringer without issues as you have already witnessed for the past year. I am a little surprised because I have used preamps with single ended outputs in the past with the Behringer, knowing full well that I would be losing 6dB in output and that a properly designed balanced preamp should be superior. Other than the 6dB less output, the combo has worked.

Good luck!  I think brj can help you from here on out, as perhaps the RCA to XLR cables are culprits as well! 

And Jason is right, if you have a scope you can measure the voltage on each of the outputs to see if they work or just plug into an amp (AT LOW VOLUME) and see if it makes noise from any spare cheap speaker. It should be less expensive than buying another DCX especially if you can confirm that your current one works.

Best,
Anand.

[lokie]

What about building an xlr to rca converter box... something like this.
 

 

[poseidonsvoice]

Doug,

That's passive by using a transformer, which is fine and is one method to the madness (there are other methods as well, using opamps or discrete circuitry and of course a power supply to support that). Incidentally, you'll notice that your AN dac is transformer coupled and that is how they are converting their single ended (RCA) signal into a balanced XLR signal.

Sure you can do all this, and you will be adding more to the signal path (which may be compromising fidelity), but that is up to you to decide depending on your budget and needs.

Another option which I’m sure many who are reading this have thought of is to sell the DCX and purchase and use a Minidsp instead which comes in both RCA and XLR flavors. Might save you some headaches.

RCA only flavor:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

If you look on the minidsp website, you'll see others.

Best of luck!

Anand.

[lokie]

Doug,

That's passive by using a transformer, which is fine and is one method to the madness (there are other methods as well, using opamps or discrete circuitry and of course a power supply to support that). Incidentally, you'll notice that your AN dac is transformer coupled and that is how they are converting their single ended (RCA) signal into a balanced XLR signal.

Sure you can do all this, and you will be adding more to the signal path (which may be compromising fidelity), but that is up to you to decide depending on your budget and needs.

Another option which I’m sure many who are reading this have thought of is to sell the DCX and purchase and use a Minidsp instead which comes in both RCA and XLR flavors. Might save you some headaches.

RCA only flavor:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

If you look on the minidsp website, you'll see others.

Best of luck!

Anand.

Got it.

I'll probably go down both paths and see(hear) how it goes. I also have a Dalquist DQ-LP1 that I have been tinkering with.

The cabling is suspect, so, will try a few different schemes here. Will also march my Preamp down to my tech and get some measurements.
What I like about the Berhinger is the possibilities for more than 2 sub control. I want to put a third sub (among other possibilities)  in the back of the room (out of phase w the two front subs). Anyway... more options w the Berhinger than anything else I've discovered.
 

[poseidonsvoice]

Got it.

I'll probably go down both paths and see(hear) how it goes. I also have a Dalquist DQ-LP1 that I have been tinkering with.

The cabling is suspect, so, will try a few different schemes here. Will also march my Preamp down to my tech and get some measurements.
What I like about the Berhinger is the possibilities for more than 2 sub control. I want to put a third sub (among other possibilities)  in the back of the room (out of phase w the two front subs). Anyway... more options w the Berhinger than anything else I've discovered.

Understood. Do note that the Minidsp model I linked has four RCA outputs, so ideally, you could have 4 subs, all RCA of course. Minidsp also has balanced models that are more expensive. I know nothing at the Behringer DCX price (~$200-$300) that can do as much for so little and have the multitude of input and output configurations, it's what I use in my own system but my Behringer is heavily modified: the only thing that is stock is the digital DSP part.

Best,
Anand.

[brj]

It's probably still worth trying your RCA-to-XLR cables straight from your DAC to the DCX.  At least that would eliminate them as a variable.

To echo Anand, at the DCX price-point, I've heard good things about the MiniDSP, and the fact that it's not operating at pro levels helps.  (At least, the few MiniDSP models that I looked at weren't - haven't looked closely lately.)

There are other pro units out there that can be had for a price similar to the DCX, but they all expect pro-level input voltages.  (I have a DBX unit arriving Friday as a replacement for my own modded DCX that I was able to get new for a enough of a discount that I'd be comfortable selling it later if I find something better, like a used Xilica unit.  I'm not thrilled with the particularly high +28dBu max line level input, but it provides the remote network control that I want given my particular installation.  We'll see how quiet the system is with the gains available in the unit itself and the sub amps...)

[lokie]

It's probably still worth trying your RCA-to-XLR cables straight from your DAC to the DCX.  At least that would eliminate them as a variable.

Right. Will exhaust the cable variable. I'm going to move the center pin in the cables I made and see what happens. Keeping fingers crossed.

My tech has a xlr to rca converter box he's going to let me borrow.  Similar to this:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/288115-REG/ART_CLEANBOXPRO_CLEANBOX_Bi_Directional_Level_Matching.html


 Ebay search churns up all kinds of options for consideration. Evidently combining pro gear w consumer gear is a common problem. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sescom-AUD-RCA-XLR-Channel-RCA-XLR-Unbalanced-Balanced-Audio-converter-3330/392060267522?hash=item5b489cec02:g:NrwAAOxyTjNSoPIv

 Experimentation to find one that does the least harm will take some time.

 Keeping an eye out for a used minidsp. They usually trade around $120. No hurries.

[brj]

Realize that the crux of your challenge is not the simple conversion from RCA to XLR, but the difference in gain between your pre-amp that operates at the 'consumer' definition of line-level @ -10 dBV and your DCX that operates at the higher 'pro' definition of line-level @ +4 dBu.  Given the DCX behavior when fed directly from your DAC, you may have enough gain in your system (thanks to the DCX's ability to add gain to the input) that's it's not an issue, but you'll have to finish debugging your cable/pre-amp issues to be sure.

The Art unit increases the gain, which is what you want, while the eBay unit does not.

Interestingly, this conversation inspired me to search for level matching products applicable to fully balanced systems, and what do you know:

Ebtech LLS-2-XLR Line Level Shifter

I also emailed Jensen to see if they had a similar offering.  (I didn't see one listed.)

Now whether a transformer based option increases the gain in a manner that generates less noise vs. the input gain stage on the DCX or other similar speaker management product is a separate question.  (The last thing I need is yet another set of cables in my system!)

[lokie]

In the Manual:

[poseidonsvoice]

Doug,

A cable like this might suffice:



Best,
Anand.

[lokie]

Tried every wiring scheme I could think of and still getting nothing.

[brj]

Did you try the RCA outputs on your DAC straight to the XLR inputs of the DCX?  That would confirm the cables and the RCA outputs of the DAC that you're normally using into the pre-amp.

[lokie]

Did you try the RCA outputs on your DAC straight to the XLR inputs of the DCX?  That would confirm the cables and the RCA outputs of the DAC that you're normally using into the pre-amp.

Brilliant! So...

The analog RCA signal from the DAC DOES get picked up by the Berhinger.

hmmm.

[brj]

So if those are the same RCA-to-XLR cables that you were using from the pre-amp to the DCX, then you've explicitly eliminated everything except the RCA-to-RCA cables that connect your DAC to the pre-amp, and the pre-amp itself.

Assuming that you have a single RCA-to-RCA connection from your DAC to your pre-amp and your mains work, then I'd say that the RCA-to-RCA cables are fine.  So, unfortunately, I think you're down to your pre-amp being the offending party.

Try feeding the pre-amp outputs that you usually use for your mains to the DCX and see if those work.   Maybe it's just the one set of outputs that's acting up?

[lokie]

So if those are the same RCA-to-XLR cables that you were using from the pre-amp to the DCX, then you've explicitly eliminated everything except the RCA-to-RCA cables that connect your DAC to the pre-amp, and the pre-amp itself.

Assuming that you have a single RCA-to-RCA connection from your DAC to your pre-amp and your mains work, then I'd say that the RCA-to-RCA cables are fine.  So, unfortunately, I think you're down to your pre-amp being the offending party.

Try feeding the pre-amp outputs that you usually use for your mains to the DCX and see if those work.   Maybe it's just the one set of outputs that's acting up?

Not really following you here but trying to connect the DCX to the preamp is what I've been trying to do. There are two outputs and both work fine to the mains but neither will work to the DCX.