DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly

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lokie

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #20 on: 20 Nov 2018, 04:05 pm »

Reference MM de Capo iDescription: Two-way reflex-loaded loudspeaker for use with stands 26-28" high (not included). Drive-units: 1" impregnated fabric-dome tweeter, 7" woven carbon-fiber cone woofer. Impedance: 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 92dB/W/m. Frequency response: 44Hz-20kHz, ±3dB. Crossover frequency: 3kHz.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/reference-mm-de-capo-i-loudspeaker-specifications#UD19DLAphbZDoSl2.99
There's a BE version as well.

MHL

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #21 on: 20 Nov 2018, 04:35 pm »
I mentioned these earlier in this thread.  Outstanding speakers IMO.

Reference MM de Capo iDescription: Two-way reflex-loaded loudspeaker for use with stands 26-28" high (not included). Drive-units: 1" impregnated fabric-dome tweeter, 7" woven carbon-fiber cone woofer. Impedance: 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 92dB/W/m. Frequency response: 44Hz-20kHz, ±3dB. Crossover frequency: 3kHz.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/reference-mm-de-capo-i-loudspeaker-specifications#UD19DLAphbZDoSl2.99
There's a BE version as well.

Rick Craig

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #22 on: 20 Nov 2018, 04:46 pm »
Reference MM de Capo iDescription: Two-way reflex-loaded loudspeaker for use with stands 26-28" high (not included). Drive-units: 1" impregnated fabric-dome tweeter, 7" woven carbon-fiber cone woofer. Impedance: 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 92dB/W/m. Frequency response: 44Hz-20kHz, ±3dB. Crossover frequency: 3kHz.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/reference-mm-de-capo-i-loudspeaker-specifications#UD19DLAphbZDoSl2.99
There's a BE version as well.

It measures poorly - definitely colored.

JoshK

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #23 on: 20 Nov 2018, 09:02 pm »
I agree with the statement that Reference MM de Capo measure poorly.  Actually, Rick was being nice, they are horrid!

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/reference3a_mmdecapo/

Dr Floyde Toole spent more than 50 years studying how we hear and correlating it with measurements (off-axis is just as important as on-axis).  This would be an example of a terrible speaker unless someone is purposely looking for super colored (very musically dishonest) speakers.

G.Michael

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #24 on: 21 Nov 2018, 02:13 am »
Quote
I agree with the statement that Reference MM de Capo measure poorly.  Actually, Rick was being nice, they are horrid!

But they look so good!   :?   :lol:

HT cOz

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #25 on: 21 Nov 2018, 02:34 am »
What about running the Ancora sealed?  I know it’s a three way and little down in the 92 dB target but it could be a good option.

HT cOz

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #26 on: 21 Nov 2018, 03:12 am »
I agree with the statement that Reference MM de Capo measure poorly.  Actually, Rick was being nice, they are horrid!

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/reference3a_mmdecapo/

Dr Floyde Toole spent more than 50 years studying how we hear and correlating it with measurements (off-axis is just as important as on-axis).  This would be an example of a terrible speaker unless someone is purposely looking for super colored (very musically dishonest) speakers.

Everyone who is in our hobby should watch this video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM I’m sure Rick’s speakers would do well  :thumb:

mresseguie

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #27 on: 21 Nov 2018, 07:14 am »
What about running the Ancora sealed?  I know it’s a three way and little down in the 92 dB target but it could be a good option.

I've got an Ancora from Rick, and it does sound great. It's sealed, too. However, you are correct that it is shy of your goal of 92dB.

Have you considered an MTM speaker? It would be easier to achieve a higher sensitivity.

Until this post, I had been lurking on this thread. I may just be interested in whatever is decided upon - especially if it becomes available as a kit.

maty

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #28 on: 21 Nov 2018, 09:22 am »
I faced a similar issue in trying to find a high sensitivity DIY speaker with the different requirement of good quality but affordable for a father-son project. We decided on this build that I documented here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139584.0

It turns out it included like Cyberstudio suggested a waveguide/compression driver for the high frequencies. At the time I did try out the speakers with my 2A3 tube amplifier with good result. My son still uses these speakers and loves them.

A good coaxial or tweeter with waveguide is always a good idea.

HES, High Efficiency Speakers

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/HES.htm

maty

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #29 on: 21 Nov 2018, 09:31 am »
Some time ago I decided, if I changed my big speakers (3-ways with 10.5" paper woofer) of my main system -kidnapped by TV and family- these 91 dB/W/m and minimum 7.2 ohms @ 200 Hz are what I would build:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html

The second review:

Quote
"I have a Unison Research Little Italy, Single Ended EL34 tube-map of 2 x 12 Watts. The Plutones had played at least 100 hours before I'm got round to finish the cabinets. After the new installation however, it lasted weeks before it sounded good. But then it was there: precise and balanced but also lively and fresh. Some examples: the voice of Magdalena Kožená in arias by Bach sounds very pure and clear. Instruments and voice are separated well. Guitar and guitarra in various recordings of Amalia Rodrigues sound nicely "pointed" and where she draws out with her voice this is quite lifelike, but never too much. Sarah K's guitar is clear and detailed and has a long decay, stunning.

With classical orchestral work, such as Shostakovitch's 15th Symphony with the London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Bernard Haitink, a lovely space is created. The last part of Mahler's "Des Knaben Wunderhorn" by the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra with Ricardo Chailly, has a wonderful layering in music. Berlioz "Symphonie Fantastique" fourth part: "Marche au Supplice" sounds firm, with dynamic percussion, shrill and growling trumpets."(Hans - Rotterdam, Netherlands).

Off course, to listen to very good recordings. For modern commercial music it is not necessary to spend a lot of money, neither on speakers nor on electronics.

.....

Btw, a new BIG commercial speakers in Europe, with 95 dB/W/m. Only 800 €. But without measurements and reviews, it is too new. From Germany. Minimum impedance?

Magnat Transpuls 1500

https://www.magnat.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/3004440




[IMG, big] https://www.magnat.de/media/image/articles/slider_large/Serienslider_Transpuls_1.jpg

Magnat Transpuls 1500 @ Magnat RV 4 @Lyngdorf CD @ MHES2018

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byBq2cU1dmU

Magnat Transpulse 1500 03

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmyPLshiM78

with Rock:

Magnat Transpuls 1500 @ Magnat RV 4 @ LP Magnat 990 МТ @ MHES 2018

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikt3zl-P7_4

Amplificatore luxman l509x diffusore magnat transpuls prova 1 consonance .Pozzuoli NA

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U6As-9CKwQ

.....

The Hybrid amplifier Magnat RV 4: https://www.magnat.de/en/electronics/rv-4/

[German] http://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/high-end/magnat-rv-4/seite-6-labor.html

[German] https://www.hifitest.de/test/bildergalerie/vollverstaerker/magnat-rv_4_15233/6

[German] https://www.fairaudio.de/test/magnat-rv-4-hybrid-voll-verstaerker-mit-dac-test/

[German] https://www.modernhifi.de/magnat-rv-4-test/
« Last Edit: 21 Nov 2018, 12:37 pm by maty »


maty

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #31 on: 21 Nov 2018, 10:13 am »
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Twenty-Five.html

Quote
Sensitivity • 91 dB / 2,83 volts
Impedance • 5 ohms nominal (minimum 4.4 ohms @ 150 Hz)

lokie

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #32 on: 29 Nov 2018, 01:45 pm »
Harbeth P3ESR

6ohm 84db


Rusty Jefferson

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #33 on: 29 Nov 2018, 03:44 pm »
Harbeth P3ESR

6ohm 84db
Great speakers.  I love them.  However, they don't meet either of the criteria you ask for, 8 ohm minimum and 92db efficiency.

lokie

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #34 on: 29 Nov 2018, 08:55 pm »
Quote
Great speakers.  I love them.  However, they don't meet either of the criteria you ask for, 8 ohm minimum and 92db efficiency.
Quote
Well... I wouldn't call it a criteria. More like a... "sure would be cool if we could do this".

And, as this thread evolves, I evolve as well.

Rick Craig

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Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #35 on: 30 Nov 2018, 02:49 pm »
Forgot to mention - SET's have horribly high output impedances. I would never use one.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #36 on: 30 Nov 2018, 04:23 pm »
I would not call these world class but they sound good and are rated at 92dB

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MLMO35XT



borism

Re: DIY- World Class Monitor that's Tube Amp Friendly
« Reply #39 on: 1 Dec 2018, 04:06 pm »
Another interesting speaker design (?world class): Fusion Tempest - 98dB, 8 Ohm



« Last Edit: 3 Dec 2018, 01:18 am by borism »