NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic. Read 9440 times.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 9021
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #40 on: 8 Mar 2019, 01:18 pm »
Was ready to pull the trigger on CDT-8 Pro, now I read of the Omnia.   :scratch:

Rusty, do you have more technical information on the piece for a dummy like me?  Like memory chip, RAM capacity, memory capacity and type, description of it's power supply, can it be controlled from an iPhone or MacBook, and what music operating system it's using. 

Roon is nice but not needed or worth the price.  Had a SqueezeBox long ago and it was very glitchy, so not interested in LMS.

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #41 on: 9 Mar 2019, 06:42 am »
Actually we changed our plan, the first product to be released is without integrated preamp/DAC and headphone amp.
Omnia S1 is just a very good media server and streamer.  The integrated DAC version will be called S2.
We have been struggling with software that is causing the delay :duh:
We plan to start production, pending this last check of allowing user to reinstall the entire package (similar to what you do with your smart phone - reset to factory default).

Mcryderman

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #42 on: 9 Mar 2019, 09:04 pm »
I own the DAC 9 and sta 9 and I love them both for the value.
I am looking at. A bluesound node2i vs  omnia 1 for using with tidal and my own music library.
With the omnia 1 would I be streaming from tidal on my phone or is the app built in like bluesound and I am simply controlling tidal via app but music is being sent from omnia out to my DAC?
If I play MQA files I would get up to 24/ 96 as the dac9 is not MQA?

Any sonic advantages with omnia 1 feeding dac9 vs node 2i

Price ? 800-900 US.

Thanks in advance,

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #43 on: 10 Mar 2019, 07:24 am »
Quote
With the omnia 1 would I be streaming from tidal on my phone or is the app built in like bluesound and I am simply controlling tidal via app but music is being sent from omnia out to my DAC?

You run the Tidal app on Omnia S1, and it output to coaxial, optical or i2S.

Quote
If I play MQA files I would get up to 24/ 96 as the dac9 is not MQA?

I keep telling people that DACs has nothing to do with MOQ.  We implemented MQA decoding in Evo DAC and then realised that the decoding is done (surprise suprise!) in the firmware of the XMOS USB chip !!!  You can do the same decoding on the PC.  Why bother to pay so much just to decode on the USB chip ?  Just play your MOQ files from Tidal or whaterver, have the decoding done on the PC.  There is no need to spend extra on hardware for MQA decoding.

Quote
Any sonic advantages with omnia 1 feeding dac9 vs node 2i
No idea, we don't use competitor's product.

Quote
Price ? 800-900 US.
Probably around $795, I will like to go as low as possible.  We haven't gotten the full production cost.

kevb

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #44 on: 10 Mar 2019, 09:29 am »
So there is no USB audio output on the Omnia?

How does that affect the MQA decoding?  I believe that the whole point of MQA is that part of it would be done on the front end, and the rest on the back end.  It's basically like an HDMI handshake if you want to get full MQA.  I have been truly hoping for Omnia to be a one stop solution.   Rusty, you mentioned running the Tidal app on Omnia for the first unfold at least......I am not quite understanding how that would work if there is no USB output to the XMOS chip in the Evo DAC for final conversion?

The other issue is that I2S on the Omnia is great, but if I get the CDT 8 Pro, then I have a decision to make with regards to which one goes into my Evo DAC....not really an issue if the Omnia would have a USB audio output.  That would solve both issues I have.....I would much rather spend money on NuPrime than some other company to get what is needed.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 9021
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #45 on: 10 Mar 2019, 12:09 pm »
Would S1 I2S output be same as CDT-8 Pro (and compatible with my PSAudi DirectStream Junior?

How about just releasing the owner's manual and FAQ now to save many of these questions?

sresener

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #46 on: 10 Mar 2019, 04:43 pm »
So there is no USB audio output on the Omnia?

How does that affect the MQA decoding?  I believe that the whole point of MQA is that part of it would be done on the front end, and the rest on the back end.  It's basically like an HDMI handshake if you want to get full MQA.  I have been truly hoping for Omnia to be a one stop solution.   Rusty, you mentioned running the Tidal app on Omnia for the first unfold at least......I am not quite understanding how that would work if there is no USB output to the XMOS chip in the Evo DAC for final conversion?

The other issue is that I2S on the Omnia is great, but if I get the CDT 8 Pro, then I have a decision to make with regards to which one goes into my Evo DAC....not really an issue if the Omnia would have a USB audio output.  That would solve both issues I have.....I would much rather spend money on NuPrime than some other company to get what is needed.


I am playing Tidal via the app from a computer to a dac that does not "support" mqa. I have the pc set to decode in the tidal app and my dac shows it is recieving a 24 96 signal.

My other setup has a nvidia shield connected via hdmi and my reciever also shows its recieving a 24 96 signal. With the Tidal android app too.

When I play a none masters song the bitrate drops and both my reciever and dac report that also.

Is there an increased bitrate (beyond 24 96) when you use a system that is mqa certified via the Tidal app?

Is "folding" a fancy way to say compress :)

left channel

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 65
    • Everyone wants to date my avatar
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #47 on: 10 Mar 2019, 05:34 pm »
You run the Tidal app on Omnia S1, and it output to coaxial, optical or i2S.

Is there a list of specs for the S1? And the S2? I am still confused. I also remain concerned about the final output, because on most Android systems the audio gets resampled to 48 kHz. Is that problem completely bypassed in the Omnia?


Is there an increased bitrate (beyond 24 96) when you use a system that is mqa certified via the Tidal app?

Is "folding" a fancy way to say compress :)


A full decoding MQA DAC will do one more unfold in its firmware, to 24/192, if that resolution is available in the file. Whether that's decompressing, upsampling, or something else is hotly contested in some corners of the internet.

kevb

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #48 on: 10 Mar 2019, 06:35 pm »

I am playing Tidal via the app from a computer to a dac that does not "support" mqa. I have the pc set to decode in the tidal app and my dac shows it is recieving a 24 96 signal.

My other setup has a nvidia shield connected via hdmi and my reciever also shows its recieving a 24 96 signal. With the Tidal android app too.

When I play a none masters song the bitrate drops and both my reciever and dac report that also.

Is there an increased bitrate (beyond 24 96) when you use a system that is mqa certified via the Tidal app?

Is "folding" a fancy way to say compress :)

My computer isn't capable of running the Tidal desktop app.  I have Daphile installed, which is a linux-based OS stripped of everything but what is necessary for audio playback. I purpose built a small PC for the job.  Sounds excellent to me. 

But having said that, I don't know of a way I will get anything but 44.1.  I have added Tidal through mysqueezebox as Daphile utilizes LMS.  This is where the limitation is - I believe?

I really don't want to go back to a Windows PC if I can avoid it.  There are so many kludgy workarounds required just to get it to sound acceptable, and some of those better workarounds are not free.  Plus the only Windows PC I own is a PC Stick.   :lol:   I don't want to buy and install Windows just to get the desktop version of Tidal.

I am just trying to figure out if there is any way to be able to get Tidal Masters from Daphile without making it a Roon endpoint....

left channel

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 65
    • Everyone wants to date my avatar
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #49 on: 10 Mar 2019, 07:21 pm »
My computer isn't capable of running the Tidal desktop app.  I have Daphile installed, which is a linux-based OS stripped of everything but what is necessary for audio playback. I purpose built a small PC for the job.  Sounds excellent to me. 

But having said that, I don't know of a way I will get anything but 44.1.  I have added Tidal through mysqueezebox as Daphile utilizes LMS.  This is where the limitation is - I believe?

I really don't want to go back to a Windows PC if I can avoid it.  There are so many kludgy workarounds required just to get it to sound acceptable, and some of those better workarounds are not free.  Plus the only Windows PC I own is a PC Stick.   :lol:   I don't want to buy and install Windows just to get the desktop version of Tidal.

I am just trying to figure out if there is any way to be able to get Tidal Masters from Daphile without making it a Roon endpoint....

The Tidal plugin for LMS/Squeezebox does not support MQA, and is not likely to as that would require licensing fees and certification. Roon would be an option. On the other hand there is also a Qobuz plugin for LMS, and depending on your preferred genres the 2 million Hi-Res tracks there may outweigh the less than 2 hundred thousand MQA tracks on Tidal anyway.

kevb

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #50 on: 10 Mar 2019, 07:36 pm »
The Tidal plugin for LMS/Squeezebox does not support MQA, and is not likely to as that would require licensing fees and certification. Roon would be an option.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions - that's what I feared.  As far as Roon goes, I am not a fan of paying a monthly/annual subscription fee for essentially a meta-data provider.  Having said that, it would at least allow me to keep using my PC for the time being.

On the other hand there is also a Qobuz plugin for LMS, and depending on your preferred genres the 2 million Hi-Res tracks there may outweigh the less than 2 hundred thousand MQA tracks on Tidal anyway.

I have been waiting for this for quite awhile.  Unfortunately, Canada appears to be still quite a ways away from getting Qubuz. 

sresener

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #51 on: 10 Mar 2019, 09:17 pm »
Is there a list of specs for the S1? And the S2? I am still confused. I also remain concerned about the final output, because on most Android systems the audio gets resampled to 48 kHz. Is that problem completely bypassed in the Omnia?

A full decoding MQA DAC will do one more unfold in its firmware, to 24/192, if that resolution is available in the file. Whether that's decompressing, upsampling, or something else is hotly contested in some corners of the internet.

I just read basically the computer does the first unfold which would be limited to 24 96 and mqa enabled dac would do the second which could take it as high as 24 192.

left channel

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 65
    • Everyone wants to date my avatar
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #52 on: 10 Mar 2019, 11:29 pm »
I just read basically the computer does the first unfold which would be limited to 24 96 and mqa enabled dac would do the second which could take it as high as 24 192.

Yes that's one way the Tidal app would work on a Windows PC or Mac, but this is an Android-based product. I've asked above for confirmation from NuPrime that the well-known problem of unwanted resampling by the Android OS is bypassed.

As far as I know the Tidal app only bypasses the problem on specific phones like the LG V30, and even then only with MQA tracks for internal playback. On all other devices, even when the Tidal app does appear to be decoding MQA, in the end the OS resamples everything to 48 kHz. And on all devices including the LG line, CD-quality tracks are resampled as well, as is everything on all devices output via USB.

Currently the only product I know of that can bypass this problem in all cases is the third-party UAPP app. On my phone I use UAPP for both Tidal, Qobuz, DLNA, and local files.

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #53 on: 11 Mar 2019, 03:03 pm »
Omnia S1 can be configured as Android or Linux (initially it is Android).  Sorry we are still trying to get into production.
After we get through this hurdle, we will look into streaming App optimizing and compatibility issues.
If Linux offers an advantage, we can provide a bootstrap package to reconfigure the device.

left channel

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 65
    • Everyone wants to date my avatar
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #54 on: 11 Mar 2019, 03:26 pm »
Omnia S1 can be configured as Android or Linux (initially it is Android).  Sorry we are still trying to get into production.
After we get through this hurdle, we will look into streaming App optimizing and compatibility issues.
If Linux offers an advantage, we can provide a bootstrap package to reconfigure the device.

Thanks for clarifying. There is no official Tidal app for Linux, nor as far as I know any distributed third-party Linux app compatible with Tidal MQA streams, so you'd have to develop your own proprietary OS/app combo as others have done. On Android unless your devs figure out a way to bypass Android resampling you cannot rely on the official Tidal app, so would then have to license UAPP or advise every user to purchase it if they want MQA. Personally I can live without MQA.

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #55 on: 11 Mar 2019, 07:49 pm »

Quote
I have not understood if the Omnia S1 is also a preamplifier, in order to be connected directly to a STA9 or STA10.
It would make sense, due to the technology of the Nuprime integrated amplifiers.
This will be called Omnia S2.

Quote
Any plan to release a similar model without integrated DAC? It coul be well seen as a pure digital transport solution.
Does it support Internet Radios and has some technicality in order to optimize their sound?
Yes, it is called Omnia S1

We changed our plan and swapped the release order and model names.

sresener

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 110
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #56 on: 11 Mar 2019, 11:33 pm »
Yes that's one way the Tidal app would work on a Windows PC or Mac, but this is an Android-based product. I've asked above for confirmation from NuPrime that the well-known problem of unwanted resampling by the Android OS is bypassed.

As far as I know the Tidal app only bypasses the problem on specific phones like the LG V30, and even then only with MQA tracks for internal playback. On all other devices, even when the Tidal app does appear to be decoding MQA, in the end the OS resamples everything to 48 kHz. And on all devices including the LG line, CD-quality tracks are resampled as well, as is everything on all devices output via USB.

Currently the only product I know of that can bypass this problem in all cases is the third-party UAPP app. On my phone I use UAPP for both Tidal, Qobuz, DLNA, and local files.

I have the andriod Tidal app running on a nvidia shield and my reciever (txrz-1100) sees up to 24 96 via hdmi, this varries between songs





left channel

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 65
    • Everyone wants to date my avatar
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #57 on: 11 Mar 2019, 11:44 pm »
I have the andriod Tidal app running on a nvidia shield and my receiver (txrz-1100) sees up to 24 96 via hdmi, this varries between songs

Interesting! Thanks. I hope the Omnia can do something like that.

mresseguie

  • Volunteer
  • Posts: 3335
  • D Sachs amp/pre + Daedalus Audio Speakers = HEAVEN
Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #58 on: 30 Mar 2019, 12:14 am »
Jason,

Knock. Knock.

How's that Omnia S1 production coming along?  :thumb:

Michael

rustydoglim

Re: NuPrime Omnia S1 at Paris Audio Show, Oct 21-23
« Reply #59 on: 1 Apr 2019, 06:40 pm »
Full production shipping mid May.  Production unit will be demo at high end show in Munich.
I will try to confirm the price and final spec by end of the week.